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This isn't new, either - this happened to me a couple times in the late 90's/early 2000's and I've since made a point of not even taking "stock options" into co

This isn't new, either - this happened to me a couple times in the late 90's/early 2000's and I've since made a point of not even taking "stock options" into consideration when evaluating job offers. Yet my most downvoted comment on reddit ever was on /r/cscareerquestions when somebody was asking how to weigh stock options when considering job options and I said "not at all" and shared my own experiences.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
That's been my experience with the startup/entrepreneur subreddits too - no-one wants to hear anything that contradicts the Startup Dream. I figure there are very few people actually walking the walk in there.
- VRay 6y ago
  The site is engineered in a way that makes it useless for any sort of expert information. If you know less than the average Redditor about something, it's GREAT, but otherwise it's best to just steer clear. Everybody gets an upvote button and a downvote button from day 1, and they'll downvote to oblivion anything they don't instantly resonate with. It turns every large-ish subreddit into an echo chamber pretty quickly
acdha 6y ago
I’ve been surprised by the degree to which people who pride themselves on being analytical badly want to believe that options will make them rich. They’ll talk about the few cases where the finance guys didn’t capture most of the wealth and ignore all of the people who eventually netted a few months salary or less (I’m reminded of the people from meetings with pets.com who were visibly just keeping a chair warm until the IPO made them rich, and ended up calling to ask if we were hiring later that year when the layoffs started). It’s a cliched observation but it really does remind me of the kids hoping to make it big in pro sports – there are way more who peak at the minor league level at best but the owners make a ton of money by encouraging everyone to think of the exceptions as the rule. Humans are prone to misjudging statistics in general and that’s really bad when one party has the best data and a strong incentive for other people to misjudge it.
voodootrucker 6y ago
It's a very interesting trend - opinions that got me down-voted into oblivion on HN in 2015 are now super popular. The biggest part of the change seemed to happen when Trump got elected. Anecdotally, it seems like that was the moment when this community lost it's innocence, stopped trusting authority, questioned it's own narratives, and in a sense grew up.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
That’s strange. My experience with /r/cscareerquestions and other online forums has been excessive cynicism about everything, especially stock options. The catch is usually when people are asking about RSUs of public companies or other relatively liquid and predictable compensation, in which case equity comp should definitely not be valued at $0.
offtop5 6y ago
Reddit tends to be younger people without much life experience. When you're 20 years old and a startup offers you all this equity it does sound really good, but when you're 38 and you realize that equity isn't worth the paper it's printed on, you'd rather get more cash comp
fatnoah 6y ago
>Yet my most downvoted comment on reddit ever was on /r/cscareerquestions when somebody was asking how to weigh stock options when considering job options and I said "not at all" and shared my own experiences. I'm pretty sure I had the exact same experience. I've been a part of three startups. One took nothing more than seed money and has been chugging along for over 15 years. It's a lifestyle business for the owner, so it also hasn't grown at all in over 10 years. The other two startups were both acquired. I was even a VP at one with over 1% equity in the company. Net value of my options was $0 after investors, credit holders, and founders got paid. Yes, some folks are going to make millions from IPOs, but the opportunity cost is far too high (IMHO). As a VP at the startup, my total compensation with 15 years of experience wasn't a whole lot more (and less, in many cases) than what a new college grad makes nowadays. Now that I've got a family, college to pay for at some point in the near future, and a retirement to fund, I'll gladly take the sure thing vs. the gamble. I've bid goodbye to startups and have quadrupled my income in doing so.

marcus_holmes 6y ago

That's been my experience with the startup/entrepreneur subreddits too - no-one wants to hear anything that contradicts the Startup Dream. I figure there are very few people actually walking the walk in there.

VRay 6y ago
The site is engineered in a way that makes it useless for any sort of expert information. If you know less than the average Redditor about something, it's GREAT, but otherwise it's best to just steer clear. Everybody gets an upvote button and a downvote button from day 1, and they'll downvote to oblivion anything they don't instantly resonate with. It turns every large-ish subreddit into an echo chamber pretty quickly

acdha 6y ago

I’ve been surprised by the degree to which people who pride themselves on being analytical badly want to believe that options will make them rich. They’ll talk about the few cases where the finance guys didn’t capture most of the wealth and ignore all of the people who eventually netted a few months salary or less (I’m reminded of the people from meetings with pets.com who were visibly just keeping a chair warm until the IPO made them rich, and ended up calling to ask if we were hiring later that year when the layoffs started). It’s a cliched observation but it really does remind me of the kids hoping to make it big in pro sports – there are way more who peak at the minor league level at best but the owners make a ton of money by encouraging everyone to think of the exceptions as the rule. Humans are prone to misjudging statistics in general and that’s really bad when one party has the best data and a strong incentive for other people to misjudge it.

voodootrucker 6y ago

It's a very interesting trend - opinions that got me down-voted into oblivion on HN in 2015 are now super popular. The biggest part of the change seemed to happen when Trump got elected. Anecdotally, it seems like that was the moment when this community lost it's innocence, stopped trusting authority, questioned it's own narratives, and in a sense grew up.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

That’s strange. My experience with /r/cscareerquestions and other online forums has been excessive cynicism about everything, especially stock options. The catch is usually when people are asking about RSUs of public companies or other relatively liquid and predictable compensation, in which case equity comp should definitely not be valued at $0.

offtop5 6y ago

Reddit tends to be younger people without much life experience. When you're 20 years old and a startup offers you all this equity it does sound really good, but when you're 38 and you realize that equity isn't worth the paper it's printed on, you'd rather get more cash comp

fatnoah 6y ago

>Yet my most downvoted comment on reddit ever was on /r/cscareerquestions when somebody was asking how to weigh stock options when considering job options and I said "not at all" and shared my own experiences. I'm pretty sure I had the exact same experience. I've been a part of three startups. One took nothing more than seed money and has been chugging along for over 15 years. It's a lifestyle business for the owner, so it also hasn't grown at all in over 10 years. The other two startups were both acquired. I was even a VP at one with over 1% equity in the company. Net value of my options was $0 after investors, credit holders, and founders got paid. Yes, some folks are going to make millions from IPOs, but the opportunity cost is far too high (IMHO). As a VP at the startup, my total compensation with 15 years of experience wasn't a whole lot more (and less, in many cases) than what a new college grad makes nowadays. Now that I've got a family, college to pay for at some point in the near future, and a retirement to fund, I'll gladly take the sure thing vs. the gamble. I've bid goodbye to startups and have quadrupled my income in doing so.