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The next time you buy an apple product, keep this in mind. Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. We are up in arms about cli

The next time you buy an apple product, keep this in mind. Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. We are up in arms about climate change with govt, but when a TRILLION dollar private company screws people over - not a word. Wait in line to buy their products. Its hard not to think that most Americans still prefer and like slavery. Just that a few black people managed to escape the publicly acceptable version of it.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Don’t worry, though. It’s just Apple. /s
- foxfoxfox 6y ago
  All the other countless brands of product manufactured in that same factory are good to buy
swebs 6y ago
If you don't want to be a hypocrite, you should also keep this in mind when buying from any company that partners with Wistron. Though it seems difficult to find a full list of partners. >Within 16 months Wistron was making Dell handhelds and Microsoft's Xbox videogame consoles, according to industry reports. (Wistron doesn't identify its customers.) https://archive.is/qxS5s https://archive.is/qxS5s
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  Wistron is the result of Acer spinning off a bunch of their brands in the late 90s. I remember slinging AOpen (Another Acer spinoff) motherboards and shortly after Acer spun off Wistron, AOpen started offering laptops from Wistron. Dell shortly thereafter offered same/similar models. They weren't very good; while thankfully my laptop was not a victim of the capacitor plague, they had some really bad design around the power port; over time just normal insert cycles would cause the connector to get loose and short in various ways. At one point I would have to 'shim' the plug in with paper to make sure that the contacts were well connected. The problem surfaced after a year, and after a factory repair, I got another year before the problem came back. Thankfully the real fix was to use a better 'plug', one that had a threaded base (i.e. a threaded hole goes through the plastic, a 'cap' holds it in place).
- teatree 6y ago
  Agree with you completely, I will try my best to avoid any products having Wistron as a supplier in future.
romanovcode 6y ago
> Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. Okey, do you have an alternative? Google is even worse.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  By a cheap phone and send the extra money to relief organizations.
- tester34 6y ago
  how Google's worse than Apple in that matter?
- tooltalk 6y ago
  Samsung, Apple's #1 competitor and the largest smartphone maker in the world, also has factories in India and doesn't have the kind of problem that Apple has.
  - moogleii 6y ago
    Erm, Samsung is just as bad, if not worse. Hell, they don't even have a great rep with their own countrymen. They just don't attract the same amount of clicks here when their dirt is exposed. This paper is from 2017 but their promised pay is much less than what Apple's supplier here originally promised (and then reneged on, which is likely a large motivator for the rioting): https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung’s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/... You can also easily find articles about Samsung's factories in Vietnam if that suits your fancy.
    - tooltalk 6y ago
      I'm not sure if you actually read the report. I just don't see the kind of abuses publicized in this incident in India -- namely deceptive "bait-and-switch" and skimming/unpaid wages. For instance, according to the report, their main grievances are that (1) the use of contractors and apprentices who make up 15% of the workforce there and are paid lower; (2) overtime and Sunday where they are required to work 1 or 2 hours more or work on holidays/Sundays during high production season. (3) resistant to unions. According to SCMP, most, or about 85%, of Wistron's factory workers are contractors[1]. While there seems to be some discrepancy between workers wages reported and received at Samsung factories, the figure reported by Apple/Wistron's factory workers are as much as ~45% less -- Rs 21,000 promised vs Rs 12,000 received. Now, I'm not saying that Samsung is a better corporate citizen, but it's just that I don't hear Samsung's CEO parading around making grandstanding speeches about how ethically they run their business or socially, environmentally responsible they are, at least not as often.
jjice 6y ago
Any recommendations to prevent supporting these companies? I've bought used for years as to not support a company directly and the initial damage had already been done. I'm interested to hear more ideas. How many phone companies are actually good with their manufacturing?
- teatree 6y ago
  I have wondered for a long time why can't we have a Kickstarter / some crowdfunding started to port Linux to ARM phones. We spend so much money on phones, if we donate $1 a month for a few months and fund a few top class open source developers to do this full time whilst giving them market rate salary we can dramatically change the mobile ecosystem. If a trusted name in HN Community or the tech world starts this many would contribute and it would have network effect. Once we have Linux on mobiles, many startups would form around this ecosystem. Which would - localize jobs redistribute wealth so that Apple & Google don't get to hoard it. stop planned obsolescence which is rampant these days. create a market for open source hardware / cruelty free hardware.
IkmoIkmo 6y ago
> when a TRILLION dollar private company screws people over It's an Apple supplier, not Apple. Besides, what does it matter that it's a trillion dollar company? It implies that if say 1 million small companies worth 1 million, would fare better in forcing a large supplier like Windsor or a large number of smaller suppliers, to respect India's local labour laws vis-a-vis their employees. That's a ridiculous assumption I think. If anything I trust that Apple's market power will force Wistron to pay out its workers according to the terms they agreed, much quicker than if Apple was, say, a small-time no-name company. It's entirely right to be outraged about this, don't get me wrong. But I don't see the cause being related to Apple being a trillion dollar company. Nor do I see Apple screwing people over. Tons of small and large companies in India screw with local labour laws all the time. If anything I'd expect that Apple suppliers would do so less on a per-worker basis. That's an assumption I'd like to see tested. The current system (courts or trial-by-media) will likely work for Apple holding its suppliers accountable. For a small company? Not so much.
- teatree 6y ago
  I have nothing against Apple. I respect them for their stand on privacy, I respect their innovation in hardware, but, this is not the first time their suppliers have used slave labor. It happened multiple times in China, now its happening in India. When a company claims it is not shipping a charger in the box due to environmental concerns, how can it repeatedly be caught using slave labor ? Can't a company that builds monumental buildings in the MOST expensive real estate in the world not hire a few DIRECT EMPLOYEES who monitor working conditions in supplier factories on a day to day basis ?

ceejayoz 6y ago

Don’t worry, though. It’s just Apple. /s

foxfoxfox 6y ago
All the other countless brands of product manufactured in that same factory are good to buy

swebs 6y ago

If you don't want to be a hypocrite, you should also keep this in mind when buying from any company that partners with Wistron. Though it seems difficult to find a full list of partners. >Within 16 months Wistron was making Dell handhelds and Microsoft's Xbox videogame consoles, according to industry reports. (Wistron doesn't identify its customers.) https://archive.is/qxS5s https://archive.is/qxS5s

csharptwdec19 6y ago
Wistron is the result of Acer spinning off a bunch of their brands in the late 90s. I remember slinging AOpen (Another Acer spinoff) motherboards and shortly after Acer spun off Wistron, AOpen started offering laptops from Wistron. Dell shortly thereafter offered same/similar models. They weren't very good; while thankfully my laptop was not a victim of the capacitor plague, they had some really bad design around the power port; over time just normal insert cycles would cause the connector to get loose and short in various ways. At one point I would have to 'shim' the plug in with paper to make sure that the contacts were well connected. The problem surfaced after a year, and after a factory repair, I got another year before the problem came back. Thankfully the real fix was to use a better 'plug', one that had a threaded base (i.e. a threaded hole goes through the plastic, a 'cap' holds it in place).
teatree 6y ago
Agree with you completely, I will try my best to avoid any products having Wistron as a supplier in future.

romanovcode 6y ago

> Along with that shiny new phone comes curse of thousands of poor people. Okey, do you have an alternative? Google is even worse.

srtjstjsj 6y ago
By a cheap phone and send the extra money to relief organizations.
tester34 6y ago
how Google's worse than Apple in that matter?
tooltalk 6y ago
Samsung, Apple's #1 competitor and the largest smartphone maker in the world, also has factories in India and doesn't have the kind of problem that Apple has.
- moogleii 6y ago
  Erm, Samsung is just as bad, if not worse. Hell, they don't even have a great rep with their own countrymen. They just don't attract the same amount of clicks here when their dirt is exposed. This paper is from 2017 but their promised pay is much less than what Apple's supplier here originally promised (and then reneged on, which is likely a large motivator for the rioting): https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/04/Samsung’s-sub-standard-labour-practices-in-India.pdf https://goodelectronics.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/... You can also easily find articles about Samsung's factories in Vietnam if that suits your fancy.
  - tooltalk 6y ago
    I'm not sure if you actually read the report. I just don't see the kind of abuses publicized in this incident in India -- namely deceptive "bait-and-switch" and skimming/unpaid wages. For instance, according to the report, their main grievances are that (1) the use of contractors and apprentices who make up 15% of the workforce there and are paid lower; (2) overtime and Sunday where they are required to work 1 or 2 hours more or work on holidays/Sundays during high production season. (3) resistant to unions. According to SCMP, most, or about 85%, of Wistron's factory workers are contractors[1]. While there seems to be some discrepancy between workers wages reported and received at Samsung factories, the figure reported by Apple/Wistron's factory workers are as much as ~45% less -- Rs 21,000 promised vs Rs 12,000 received. Now, I'm not saying that Samsung is a better corporate citizen, but it's just that I don't hear Samsung's CEO parading around making grandstanding speeches about how ethically they run their business or socially, environmentally responsible they are, at least not as often.

jjice 6y ago

Any recommendations to prevent supporting these companies? I've bought used for years as to not support a company directly and the initial damage had already been done. I'm interested to hear more ideas. How many phone companies are actually good with their manufacturing?

teatree 6y ago
I have wondered for a long time why can't we have a Kickstarter / some crowdfunding started to port Linux to ARM phones. We spend so much money on phones, if we donate $1 a month for a few months and fund a few top class open source developers to do this full time whilst giving them market rate salary we can dramatically change the mobile ecosystem. If a trusted name in HN Community or the tech world starts this many would contribute and it would have network effect. Once we have Linux on mobiles, many startups would form around this ecosystem. Which would - localize jobs redistribute wealth so that Apple & Google don't get to hoard it. stop planned obsolescence which is rampant these days. create a market for open source hardware / cruelty free hardware.

IkmoIkmo 6y ago

> when a TRILLION dollar private company screws people over It's an Apple supplier, not Apple. Besides, what does it matter that it's a trillion dollar company? It implies that if say 1 million small companies worth 1 million, would fare better in forcing a large supplier like Windsor or a large number of smaller suppliers, to respect India's local labour laws vis-a-vis their employees. That's a ridiculous assumption I think. If anything I trust that Apple's market power will force Wistron to pay out its workers according to the terms they agreed, much quicker than if Apple was, say, a small-time no-name company. It's entirely right to be outraged about this, don't get me wrong. But I don't see the cause being related to Apple being a trillion dollar company. Nor do I see Apple screwing people over. Tons of small and large companies in India screw with local labour laws all the time. If anything I'd expect that Apple suppliers would do so less on a per-worker basis. That's an assumption I'd like to see tested. The current system (courts or trial-by-media) will likely work for Apple holding its suppliers accountable. For a small company? Not so much.

teatree 6y ago
I have nothing against Apple. I respect them for their stand on privacy, I respect their innovation in hardware, but, this is not the first time their suppliers have used slave labor. It happened multiple times in China, now its happening in India. When a company claims it is not shipping a charger in the box due to environmental concerns, how can it repeatedly be caught using slave labor ? Can't a company that builds monumental buildings in the MOST expensive real estate in the world not hire a few DIRECT EMPLOYEES who monitor working conditions in supplier factories on a day to day basis ?