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> The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. Israel has no genuinely inde

> The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. IDF regularly intervenes in both, that's a very poorly held secret. Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations, but Israel is remarkably not, and even seem to give NSO a considerable amount of legal cover. I believe it's just a cover for the state to distance itself from the activity in public eyes, just like IDF distances itself from peddling military hardware around the world by hiding behind "independent private companies."

yyyk 6y ago
>Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself and a newspaper like "Ha'artez" can exist. >Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations That would make most of the West "not normal nations".
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself No. Judges who serve on the Supreme Court, as well as the district and magistrate courts, are appointed by the Judicial Selection Committee, which consists of nine members: the Minister of Justice, another cabinet member, two Knesset members (in practice one is from the coalition and the other is from the opposition), two members of the Israel Bar Association, and the President of the Supreme Court and two other Supreme Court justices. The committee is chaired by the Minister of Justice. It can appoint judges to the magistrate and district courts by a majority vote, but appointing a Supreme Court judge requires a majority of at least 7 to 9 or two less than the number present at the meeting.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    In short, Judges and people who are dependent on them have an absolute majority. They also have a direct veto power over any Supreme Court appointment (7 of 9 and they have 3 votes).
    - baybal2 6y ago
      No The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes — an easy thing to do, and almost certain if supreme court is already stuffed by pro-establishment judges for a few government terms. And candidates for supreme court appointment almost always come from seniormost district court judges, which were simple majority appointed. And if supreme court appointment keeps getting vetoed, they can simply do nothing, and wait for appointment by default of seniormost district court judge. And all of this does not matter at all when IDF intervenes.
      - yyyk 6y ago
        "The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes" Except the 'only 2 votes' are dependent on the other 3 vote block for a living. Also, the Supreme Court has retained its option for interfering with the composition of Knesset block, and putting an opposition member in it, which would make it an effective 1 member block.
- quetzthecoatl 6y ago
  India too (which is actually unconstitutional, but somehow that's ignored and judges select their friends and kin as next gen judges)
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Keeping jokes to myself, but Pakistan also has quite a number of jokes how words "judicial fraternity" apply in the most literal sense. 18th amendment tried to fix the issue, but paradoxically just made it worse. The Chaudhry train wreck was a complete tragicomedy.
doctorbaum 6y ago
You have no idea what you're talking about, and comments like "that's a very poorly held secret." don't deserve the effort of trying to find a reference to refute them.
edanm 6y ago
> Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. That's just not true, where are you getting your information from?
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Israeli courts have repeatedly ruled in a way that violates international law, including on illegal Israeli settlements. Does it really matter if they're independent if they disregard the law in exactly the same way the Israeli government does?

yyyk 6y ago

>Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself and a newspaper like "Ha'artez" can exist. >Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations That would make most of the West "not normal nations".

baybal2 6y ago
> Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself No. Judges who serve on the Supreme Court, as well as the district and magistrate courts, are appointed by the Judicial Selection Committee, which consists of nine members: the Minister of Justice, another cabinet member, two Knesset members (in practice one is from the coalition and the other is from the opposition), two members of the Israel Bar Association, and the President of the Supreme Court and two other Supreme Court justices. The committee is chaired by the Minister of Justice. It can appoint judges to the magistrate and district courts by a majority vote, but appointing a Supreme Court judge requires a majority of at least 7 to 9 or two less than the number present at the meeting.
- yyyk 6y ago
  In short, Judges and people who are dependent on them have an absolute majority. They also have a direct veto power over any Supreme Court appointment (7 of 9 and they have 3 votes).
  - baybal2 6y ago
    No The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes — an easy thing to do, and almost certain if supreme court is already stuffed by pro-establishment judges for a few government terms. And candidates for supreme court appointment almost always come from seniormost district court judges, which were simple majority appointed. And if supreme court appointment keeps getting vetoed, they can simply do nothing, and wait for appointment by default of seniormost district court judge. And all of this does not matter at all when IDF intervenes.
    - yyyk 6y ago
      "The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes" Except the 'only 2 votes' are dependent on the other 3 vote block for a living. Also, the Supreme Court has retained its option for interfering with the composition of Knesset block, and putting an opposition member in it, which would make it an effective 1 member block.
quetzthecoatl 6y ago
India too (which is actually unconstitutional, but somehow that's ignored and judges select their friends and kin as next gen judges)
- baybal2 6y ago
  Keeping jokes to myself, but Pakistan also has quite a number of jokes how words "judicial fraternity" apply in the most literal sense. 18th amendment tried to fix the issue, but paradoxically just made it worse. The Chaudhry train wreck was a complete tragicomedy.

doctorbaum 6y ago

You have no idea what you're talking about, and comments like "that's a very poorly held secret." don't deserve the effort of trying to find a reference to refute them.

edanm 6y ago

> Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. That's just not true, where are you getting your information from?

AsyncAwait 6y ago
Israeli courts have repeatedly ruled in a way that violates international law, including on illegal Israeli settlements. Does it really matter if they're independent if they disregard the law in exactly the same way the Israeli government does?