4 ms·

The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. The lawsuit and sanctions are d

by slavak 6y ago

The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. The lawsuit and sanctions are decided by the courts based on existing laws and precedent, and for them Facebook's size or position in the Israeli market does not (and should not) hold any weight whatsoever. The most the legislative can do is amend the relevant laws to make what Facebook tried to do legal going forward, and that still wouldn't apply retroactively. The odds of the government choosing to extensively overhaul its consumer protection laws for the interests of a single multinational in a single lawsuit aren't great.

msh 6y ago
Facebook could choose to leave the Israeli market so it would not be bound by Israeli law.
- slavak 6y ago
  Yes, Facebook could do that. There's probably many laws in many other countries Facebook operates in that are a lot less reasonable than this one, but I guess if for some reason this was the specific hill they wanted to die on, they would absolutely be free to do so. Facebook also has a pretty big engineering office in Tel-Aviv, which they'd probably have to close in this scenario. I imagine that would also be a massive PITA. But, again, there's nothing technically stopping them from doing that.
baybal2 6y ago
> The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. IDF regularly intervenes in both, that's a very poorly held secret. Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations, but Israel is remarkably not, and even seem to give NSO a considerable amount of legal cover. I believe it's just a cover for the state to distance itself from the activity in public eyes, just like IDF distances itself from peddling military hardware around the world by hiding behind "independent private companies."
- yyyk 6y ago
  >Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself and a newspaper like "Ha'artez" can exist. >Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations That would make most of the West "not normal nations".
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself No. Judges who serve on the Supreme Court, as well as the district and magistrate courts, are appointed by the Judicial Selection Committee, which consists of nine members: the Minister of Justice, another cabinet member, two Knesset members (in practice one is from the coalition and the other is from the opposition), two members of the Israel Bar Association, and the President of the Supreme Court and two other Supreme Court justices. The committee is chaired by the Minister of Justice. It can appoint judges to the magistrate and district courts by a majority vote, but appointing a Supreme Court judge requires a majority of at least 7 to 9 or two less than the number present at the meeting.
    - yyyk 6y ago
      In short, Judges and people who are dependent on them have an absolute majority. They also have a direct veto power over any Supreme Court appointment (7 of 9 and they have 3 votes).
      - baybal2 6y ago
        No The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes — an easy thing to do, and almost certain if supreme court is already stuffed by pro-establishment judges for a few government terms. And candidates for supreme court appointment almost always come from seniormost district court judges, which were simple majority appointed. And if supreme court appointment keeps getting vetoed, they can simply do nothing, and wait for appointment by default of seniormost district court judge. And all of this does not matter at all when IDF intervenes.

by slavak 6y ago

msh 6y ago

Facebook could choose to leave the Israeli market so it would not be bound by Israeli law.

slavak 6y ago
Yes, Facebook could do that. There's probably many laws in many other countries Facebook operates in that are a lot less reasonable than this one, but I guess if for some reason this was the specific hill they wanted to die on, they would absolutely be free to do so. Facebook also has a pretty big engineering office in Tel-Aviv, which they'd probably have to close in this scenario. I imagine that would also be a massive PITA. But, again, there's nothing technically stopping them from doing that.

baybal2 6y ago

> The Israeli government has absolutely no say in how any of this plays out, that is the entire point of an independent judiciary. Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. IDF regularly intervenes in both, that's a very poorly held secret. Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations, but Israel is remarkably not, and even seem to give NSO a considerable amount of legal cover. I believe it's just a cover for the state to distance itself from the activity in public eyes, just like IDF distances itself from peddling military hardware around the world by hiding behind "independent private companies."

yyyk 6y ago
>Israel has no genuinely independent judiciary, nor genuinely free press. Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself and a newspaper like "Ha'artez" can exist. >Any normal nation would be completely horrified at the prospect of a private company effectively intervening into its foreign relations That would make most of the West "not normal nations".
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Israel is the only country in the world where the judiciary appoints itself No. Judges who serve on the Supreme Court, as well as the district and magistrate courts, are appointed by the Judicial Selection Committee, which consists of nine members: the Minister of Justice, another cabinet member, two Knesset members (in practice one is from the coalition and the other is from the opposition), two members of the Israel Bar Association, and the President of the Supreme Court and two other Supreme Court justices. The committee is chaired by the Minister of Justice. It can appoint judges to the magistrate and district courts by a majority vote, but appointing a Supreme Court judge requires a majority of at least 7 to 9 or two less than the number present at the meeting.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    In short, Judges and people who are dependent on them have an absolute majority. They also have a direct veto power over any Supreme Court appointment (7 of 9 and they have 3 votes).
    - baybal2 6y ago
      No The establishment already has 3 votes by default, and needs only 2 yes votes — an easy thing to do, and almost certain if supreme court is already stuffed by pro-establishment judges for a few government terms. And candidates for supreme court appointment almost always come from seniormost district court judges, which were simple majority appointed. And if supreme court appointment keeps getting vetoed, they can simply do nothing, and wait for appointment by default of seniormost district court judge. And all of this does not matter at all when IDF intervenes.