5 ms·

Forget iOS. Forget Android. This Is Microsoft’s Market, Baby

8 points by profitbaron 15y ago

makecheck 15y ago
The initial cost of a phone seems to be subsidized by the carrier's data plan contract; a phone that calls and texts for "free" would look more expensive up front than its competitors. And if AT&T is even slightly telling the truth about the "load" phones create on its precious network, a Skype-only phone would have to impose a significant tax on any WiFi network it passed through; so how long do you think there would be decent free WiFi in areas that become bogged down by phone Skype traffic?
- profitbaron 15y ago
  Microsoft could easily subsidize these to compete with the carriers, as they would be running via BING (producing them revenue in ad clicks). Also with regards to the Wifi issues obviously, the networks would have to be improved with regards to WIFI offered by companies and Microsoft would have to most likely invest into improving the network as well but, with billions lying around. It is worthwhile to go BIG on a market where it has huge potential than trying to milk its dying cash cows forever, until the company completely burns out.
  - sfgfdhgfdshdhhd 15y ago
    I'm not sure the propaganda that MS cash cow's Windows and Office would stop anytime soon. All this post-PC bs Stevie feed people through their extravagant TV ad campaign surely have brainwashed the uneducated self-proclaimed pro-sumers.
drivebyacct2 15y ago
Except that Android and Google Voice could snipe them out in nothing flat. In fact, I have full confidence that they could push out their existing code call it beta, and have all of this functionality on millions of phones right now. The infrastructure is already there. I know it, because I use this fabled phone right now. When I'm on a Wifi network, my 3g is turned off. My texts stream in (and are synced with all my PCs) through Google Voice. My calls are connected to the SIP built into Gingerbread. My outgoing calls are registered with the GVoice web interface (via GVCallback) and are then connected to the SIP on my phone. (also note, that all of this is done transparently. If you call or text the phone number that I give out to everyone, my phone operates the same regardless of if I'm on Wifi/3g/etc) Meaning, when I have wifi, I can make and receive texts and calls without incurring data charges. I can do this over 3g if I wanted as well, but honestly, voice performance on 1x is still better than VoIP.
- aphexairlines 15y ago
  If Google were interested in providing outgoing access to the the telephone system over data networks with Google Talk and Google Voice on Android like they do on the GMail website, they would have done so already.
John212 15y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by a WIFI SIM card. A SIM card is designed to run on a GSM network. Outside of a wifi area you would need to use some sort of network to transmit your data.. there really is no option other than a GSM/CDMA carrier. Also, we have the problem of distribution now. Microsoft doesn't have the same retail presence that Apple has. Google proved that selling handsets direct to consumers doesn't work that well. Nokia closed down their stores in NYC, Chicago and London. Think of the retail stores that T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint etc have across the country... there is no way to compete with that. The GSM protocol is design to handle voice data and is well optimized and uses surprisingly little bandwidth. Skype is much heavier on bandwidth in comparison. The skype protocol wasn't designed to be used as you walk through areas of low signal or for 1,000 users going through one cell phone tower at once. For simple voice data... the GSM protocol wins hands down. If you want to imagine any Microsoft/Skype/Nokia/Windows 7 mash up.. what if they adapted the Skype p2p technology for use on handsets to allow you to connect through other handsets to get to a base station? This will allow you to route around network congestion, prevent dropped calls, reduce network infrastructure and increase network coverage. Nokia makes the cell tower infrastructure through Nokia Siemens... If anyone could do this, it is Nokia. Imagine how hard carriers would push a p2p handset. </dream>
code_duck 15y ago
This already exists! An iPod Touch with Skype on wifi is the best home phone I've ever owned. But would I really call it a mobile phone, or consider a wifi only phone? I spend a lot of time in my car, and of course don't have stable wifi in there. I tried to pretend my iPod was a wifi-only phone for a few months, but it didn't work out for me. Perhaps wifi availability is good enough in densely populated urban areas, but is using random wifi across the city secure? It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does with Skype and the carriers, though. MS is not in a very strong position in the mobile phone market, and I can't imagine the carriers like Skype at all, as charging per minute and per text rather than by the MB for data is much more profitable. The neutered, 3G only version of Skype that came with ym Verizon phone, which counts US domestic calls against your normal calling plan, shows what Verizon thinks of Skype. That's "Skype Mobile", there's another Skype which works only on wifi. When you call Skype-to-Skype on "Skype Mobile", it dials a 1800 number in Atlanta, and the sound quality is terrible. On the same phone, the wifi Skype has markedly better sound quality. It seems to me that since I'm paying $25 a mo. for unlimited 3G data, I should be able to use the data to make Skype calls if I please. If Microsoft can make that happen, more power to them.
- aphexairlines 15y ago
  Do Skype-to-Skype calls on Verizon really count against your normal calling plan? Skype has a similar deal in Japan with au/KDDI where Skype-to-Skype calls use the cell voice network (which is much clearer than over 3g on other carriers) and don't count against the monthly minute allowance.
  - code_duck 15y ago
    You're correct, I guess I'm thinking of Skype-Phone calls using SkypeOut. On my computer or iPod, those are unlimited for like $3 a month, but they do count as minutes on Skype Mobile. The only Skype-Skype I do is international, so that's why I hadn't considered that. Thankfully those are still data charges only.
6ren 15y ago
Free mobile, subsidized by ads is an attractive vision - but you need a network to do it. And, maybe advertising revenue is not sufficient... yet. However, because ad revenue increases over time, and network cost decreases, it seems inevitable. e.g. Google tried to do this with wifi in san fran (but IIRC had council problems). Google already has huge market share, so it's probably not crucial for them. But an up-and-coming search/advertiser with lots of money (like MS) is motivated and able.
wglb 15y ago
Whoops--lands me on a godaddy ad page, offering to sell me the domain.
bradleyland 15y ago
The inhibitor to free phone calls using data, rather than traditional voice minutes, is not the technology; it's the carriers (ATT, Verizon, etc).
pohl 15y ago
With the Nokia deal, Microsoft has positioned itself with one of the biggest carriers in the world to produce its phones on its operating system This is an extremely low-quality article. The author seems to not know what a "carrier" is in the mobile industry.

8 points by profitbaron 15y ago

The initial cost of a phone seems to be subsidized by the carrier's data plan contract; a phone that calls and texts for "free" would look more expensive up front than its competitors. And if AT&T is even slightly telling the truth about the "load" phones create on its precious network, a Skype-only phone would have to impose a significant tax on any WiFi network it passed through; so how long do you think there would be decent free WiFi in areas that become bogged down by phone Skype traffic?

profitbaron 15y ago
Microsoft could easily subsidize these to compete with the carriers, as they would be running via BING (producing them revenue in ad clicks). Also with regards to the Wifi issues obviously, the networks would have to be improved with regards to WIFI offered by companies and Microsoft would have to most likely invest into improving the network as well but, with billions lying around. It is worthwhile to go BIG on a market where it has huge potential than trying to milk its dying cash cows forever, until the company completely burns out.
- sfgfdhgfdshdhhd 15y ago
  I'm not sure the propaganda that MS cash cow's Windows and Office would stop anytime soon. All this post-PC bs Stevie feed people through their extravagant TV ad campaign surely have brainwashed the uneducated self-proclaimed pro-sumers.

drivebyacct2 15y ago

Except that Android and Google Voice could snipe them out in nothing flat. In fact, I have full confidence that they could push out their existing code call it beta, and have all of this functionality on millions of phones right now. The infrastructure is already there. I know it, because I use this fabled phone right now. When I'm on a Wifi network, my 3g is turned off. My texts stream in (and are synced with all my PCs) through Google Voice. My calls are connected to the SIP built into Gingerbread. My outgoing calls are registered with the GVoice web interface (via GVCallback) and are then connected to the SIP on my phone. (also note, that all of this is done transparently. If you call or text the phone number that I give out to everyone, my phone operates the same regardless of if I'm on Wifi/3g/etc) Meaning, when I have wifi, I can make and receive texts and calls without incurring data charges. I can do this over 3g if I wanted as well, but honestly, voice performance on 1x is still better than VoIP.

aphexairlines 15y ago
If Google were interested in providing outgoing access to the the telephone system over data networks with Google Talk and Google Voice on Android like they do on the GMail website, they would have done so already.

John212 15y ago

I'm not sure what you mean by a WIFI SIM card. A SIM card is designed to run on a GSM network. Outside of a wifi area you would need to use some sort of network to transmit your data.. there really is no option other than a GSM/CDMA carrier. Also, we have the problem of distribution now. Microsoft doesn't have the same retail presence that Apple has. Google proved that selling handsets direct to consumers doesn't work that well. Nokia closed down their stores in NYC, Chicago and London. Think of the retail stores that T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint etc have across the country... there is no way to compete with that. The GSM protocol is design to handle voice data and is well optimized and uses surprisingly little bandwidth. Skype is much heavier on bandwidth in comparison. The skype protocol wasn't designed to be used as you walk through areas of low signal or for 1,000 users going through one cell phone tower at once. For simple voice data... the GSM protocol wins hands down. If you want to imagine any Microsoft/Skype/Nokia/Windows 7 mash up.. what if they adapted the Skype p2p technology for use on handsets to allow you to connect through other handsets to get to a base station? This will allow you to route around network congestion, prevent dropped calls, reduce network infrastructure and increase network coverage. Nokia makes the cell tower infrastructure through Nokia Siemens... If anyone could do this, it is Nokia. Imagine how hard carriers would push a p2p handset. </dream>

code_duck 15y ago

This already exists! An iPod Touch with Skype on wifi is the best home phone I've ever owned. But would I really call it a mobile phone, or consider a wifi only phone? I spend a lot of time in my car, and of course don't have stable wifi in there. I tried to pretend my iPod was a wifi-only phone for a few months, but it didn't work out for me. Perhaps wifi availability is good enough in densely populated urban areas, but is using random wifi across the city secure? It will be interesting to see what Microsoft does with Skype and the carriers, though. MS is not in a very strong position in the mobile phone market, and I can't imagine the carriers like Skype at all, as charging per minute and per text rather than by the MB for data is much more profitable. The neutered, 3G only version of Skype that came with ym Verizon phone, which counts US domestic calls against your normal calling plan, shows what Verizon thinks of Skype. That's "Skype Mobile", there's another Skype which works only on wifi. When you call Skype-to-Skype on "Skype Mobile", it dials a 1800 number in Atlanta, and the sound quality is terrible. On the same phone, the wifi Skype has markedly better sound quality. It seems to me that since I'm paying $25 a mo. for unlimited 3G data, I should be able to use the data to make Skype calls if I please. If Microsoft can make that happen, more power to them.

aphexairlines 15y ago
Do Skype-to-Skype calls on Verizon really count against your normal calling plan? Skype has a similar deal in Japan with au/KDDI where Skype-to-Skype calls use the cell voice network (which is much clearer than over 3g on other carriers) and don't count against the monthly minute allowance.
- code_duck 15y ago
  You're correct, I guess I'm thinking of Skype-Phone calls using SkypeOut. On my computer or iPod, those are unlimited for like $3 a month, but they do count as minutes on Skype Mobile. The only Skype-Skype I do is international, so that's why I hadn't considered that. Thankfully those are still data charges only.

6ren 15y ago

Free mobile, subsidized by ads is an attractive vision - but you need a network to do it. And, maybe advertising revenue is not sufficient... yet. However, because ad revenue increases over time, and network cost decreases, it seems inevitable. e.g. Google tried to do this with wifi in san fran (but IIRC had council problems). Google already has huge market share, so it's probably not crucial for them. But an up-and-coming search/advertiser with lots of money (like MS) is motivated and able.

wglb 15y ago

Whoops--lands me on a godaddy ad page, offering to sell me the domain.

bradleyland 15y ago

The inhibitor to free phone calls using data, rather than traditional voice minutes, is not the technology; it's the carriers (ATT, Verizon, etc).

pohl 15y ago

With the Nokia deal, Microsoft has positioned itself with one of the biggest carriers in the world to produce its phones on its operating system This is an extremely low-quality article. The author seems to not know what a "carrier" is in the mobile industry.