8 ms·

Is the "hot new thing" status of zsh due to the macos change or is there more going on with other platforms? I've used both and maybe it's because I'm just not

Is the "hot new thing" status of zsh due to the macos change or is there more going on with other platforms? I've used both and maybe it's because I'm just not doing anything beyond normal, basic stuff - but I don't see a big difference.

tutfbhuf 6y ago
I use zsh for interactive shells and bash for scripts.
pfranz 6y ago
I remember it getting popular years before macOS switched. I believe Oh My Zsh (a zsh framework) being popular when I first tested it out and that looks to be 10 years old. The things that got me to try it was being mostly compatible with Bash and having a lot of features that Bash only got later. I remember liking recursive globs, which look like they got added to Bash 4, but my OS may not have had it at the time.
oblio 6y ago
Zsh has had more features than bash for decades. If anything, bash has caught up recently. It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. People tend to use defaults and a lot more people are exposed to zsh now.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  The problem with ootb zsh is that it's weird. Even PS1 is not friendly Then you start to feel insecure thinking it might be too weird and don't try it
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Then you start to feel insecure thinking it might be too weird and don't try it Me (using fish): Hmmmmmm....
  - mattgreenrocks 6y ago
    Yeah. I've gotten to the point where I hate tweaking things, and zsh feels like a pit of endless tweaks. I'm sure I could go dig up someone's package that has sane defaults, but, I ultimately don't care enough to do the work to vet _that_ configuration. Hence, I'm on fish.
    - apple4ever 6y ago
      And I've already got a nice customized bashrc file. Maybe some of that comes out of the box with zsh (who admittedly I've only sort of tried), but not sure its worth the effort to change.
    - ccmcarey 6y ago
      Yeah, fish has great defaults and behaviors that would take a bunch of plugins in zsh to achieve. Combined with starship.rs, it's super easy to get a very nice shell with no config required.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. People tend to use defaults and a lot more people are exposed to zsh now. That's a very recent change (1-2 years). ZSH has been extremely popular (and OMZ! etc), for a decade.
  - apfsx 6y ago
    You are correct about the recent change but I think that Apple making the default change exposes a program like ZSH to many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who have no idea what a shell is. I'm sure there are many people around the world who wanted to achieve something on their Mac, found online to open "Terminal" noticed the shell said "Bash" or found something online about Bash scripts, or commands, etc and this leads them down a hole of learning. This can add a lot more than people would think.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. Some developers have found out zsh before apple and customized it extensively. macOS switch just added fuel to the fire.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    Indeed. I've switched to zsh a few years before it become a default on macs. If only I do not really remember what pushed me there, probably there was a wave of "zsh is awesome" sentiment over the internet.
- arvinsim 6y ago
  I agree. I wouldn't have used `zsh` if not for MacOS. I still sometimes forget I am working in zsh when configuring things.
rixrax 6y ago
Since OSX was forcing it down my throat, I switched to zsh. I suffered for a couple of months and am now happily back to bash. I’m sure all these behaviors could have been changed in zsh but I’m believer in defaults, so the different tab completion behavior and handling of asterisk drove me absolutely bananas.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Since OSX was forcing it down my throat, I switched to zsh. Forced it? I've used a custom bash (v. 4) on OS X and not Apple's older bash for a decade or so, and I'm using fish since the last 2 years, not the OS X zsh. It's trivial to change shell (basically, chsh, as in any Unix).
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    I'd also put more of the blame on GNU than Apple. Apple probably would have continued to ship bash if it hadn't switched to the GPL3 license.
    - teddyh 6y ago
      The only reason Bash exists at all is because of the very same reason Bash switched to GPLv3. There could be no theoretical world where Bash exists but stays with GPLv2.
      - sjwright 6y ago
        That's a cryptic response. Can you elaborate?
        coldtea 6y ago
        It's not right either. Bash was made-to-order by the FSF to get a shell free of the old BSD etc code. But there's nothing extremely important about it being GPL3 and not GPL2 (except that it should follow the FSF dictums to the maximum).
pizza234 6y ago
Zsh has a lot of features, and some can be actually useful. In my case, I find, for example, customizing the right part of the prompt useful; additionally, there are improvements that one gets out of the box, like better copy-paste. However, when I've asked to colleagues of mine why they used it and how, I've found that nobody knew anything beyond the basics. I've tried to go beyond the basics myself, but I've found the manuals very obscure, and I gave up. Nowadays I use it for my shell, while I use bash for scripts. Considering that there's nothing radically better, or at least, that there's nothing radically better _and_ easily accessible, I think that it will always be either a niche, or a tool used in a very basic form. I also think it will realistically never take off in scripting.
- FunnyLookinHat 6y ago
  I'm much the same. Occasionally I discover a new feature and it has a positive effect on my workflow, but on the whole it's mostly me reaping benefits from the improved shell prompt. I've been trying to stick to literal shell (as in /bin/sh) lately for portability reasons - but every once in a while there's something in bash that makes my life much easier!

tutfbhuf 6y ago

I use zsh for interactive shells and bash for scripts.

pfranz 6y ago

I remember it getting popular years before macOS switched. I believe Oh My Zsh (a zsh framework) being popular when I first tested it out and that looks to be 10 years old. The things that got me to try it was being mostly compatible with Bash and having a lot of features that Bash only got later. I remember liking recursive globs, which look like they got added to Bash 4, but my OS may not have had it at the time.

oblio 6y ago

Zsh has had more features than bash for decades. If anything, bash has caught up recently. It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. People tend to use defaults and a lot more people are exposed to zsh now.

raverbashing 6y ago
The problem with ootb zsh is that it's weird. Even PS1 is not friendly Then you start to feel insecure thinking it might be too weird and don't try it
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Then you start to feel insecure thinking it might be too weird and don't try it Me (using fish): Hmmmmmm....
- mattgreenrocks 6y ago
  Yeah. I've gotten to the point where I hate tweaking things, and zsh feels like a pit of endless tweaks. I'm sure I could go dig up someone's package that has sane defaults, but, I ultimately don't care enough to do the work to vet _that_ configuration. Hence, I'm on fish.
  - apple4ever 6y ago
    And I've already got a nice customized bashrc file. Maybe some of that comes out of the box with zsh (who admittedly I've only sort of tried), but not sure its worth the effort to change.
  - ccmcarey 6y ago
    Yeah, fish has great defaults and behaviors that would take a bunch of plugins in zsh to achieve. Combined with starship.rs, it's super easy to get a very nice shell with no config required.
coldtea 6y ago
>It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. People tend to use defaults and a lot more people are exposed to zsh now. That's a very recent change (1-2 years). ZSH has been extremely popular (and OMZ! etc), for a decade.
- apfsx 6y ago
  You are correct about the recent change but I think that Apple making the default change exposes a program like ZSH to many tens or hundreds of thousands of people who have no idea what a shell is. I'm sure there are many people around the world who wanted to achieve something on their Mac, found online to open "Terminal" noticed the shell said "Bash" or found something online about Bash scripts, or commands, etc and this leads them down a hole of learning. This can add a lot more than people would think.
bayindirh 6y ago
> It's just Apple using zsh as a default shell. Some developers have found out zsh before apple and customized it extensively. macOS switch just added fuel to the fire.
- rimliu 6y ago
  Indeed. I've switched to zsh a few years before it become a default on macs. If only I do not really remember what pushed me there, probably there was a wave of "zsh is awesome" sentiment over the internet.
arvinsim 6y ago
I agree. I wouldn't have used `zsh` if not for MacOS. I still sometimes forget I am working in zsh when configuring things.

rixrax 6y ago

Since OSX was forcing it down my throat, I switched to zsh. I suffered for a couple of months and am now happily back to bash. I’m sure all these behaviors could have been changed in zsh but I’m believer in defaults, so the different tab completion behavior and handling of asterisk drove me absolutely bananas.

coldtea 6y ago
>Since OSX was forcing it down my throat, I switched to zsh. Forced it? I've used a custom bash (v. 4) on OS X and not Apple's older bash for a decade or so, and I'm using fish since the last 2 years, not the OS X zsh. It's trivial to change shell (basically, chsh, as in any Unix).
- dehrmann 6y ago
  I'd also put more of the blame on GNU than Apple. Apple probably would have continued to ship bash if it hadn't switched to the GPL3 license.
  - teddyh 6y ago
    The only reason Bash exists at all is because of the very same reason Bash switched to GPLv3. There could be no theoretical world where Bash exists but stays with GPLv2.
    - sjwright 6y ago
      That's a cryptic response. Can you elaborate?
      - coldtea 6y ago
        It's not right either. Bash was made-to-order by the FSF to get a shell free of the old BSD etc code. But there's nothing extremely important about it being GPL3 and not GPL2 (except that it should follow the FSF dictums to the maximum).

pizza234 6y ago

Zsh has a lot of features, and some can be actually useful. In my case, I find, for example, customizing the right part of the prompt useful; additionally, there are improvements that one gets out of the box, like better copy-paste. However, when I've asked to colleagues of mine why they used it and how, I've found that nobody knew anything beyond the basics. I've tried to go beyond the basics myself, but I've found the manuals very obscure, and I gave up. Nowadays I use it for my shell, while I use bash for scripts. Considering that there's nothing radically better, or at least, that there's nothing radically better _and_ easily accessible, I think that it will always be either a niche, or a tool used in a very basic form. I also think it will realistically never take off in scripting.

FunnyLookinHat 6y ago
I'm much the same. Occasionally I discover a new feature and it has a positive effect on my workflow, but on the whole it's mostly me reaping benefits from the improved shell prompt. I've been trying to stick to literal shell (as in /bin/sh) lately for portability reasons - but every once in a while there's something in bash that makes my life much easier!