4 ms·

If America wanted NSO to avoid dealing with particular countries, all it would take is a single phonecall to the Israeli government. It can do that, because one

by yyyk 6y ago

If America wanted NSO to avoid dealing with particular countries, all it would take is a single phonecall to the Israeli government. It can do that, because one country is a superpower and a different country is the client. I suspect the reason that does not happen is because NSO does the US's dirty work for it, otherwise the US would have stopped it already. After all, the US directly supports those same governments NSO works with. It's probably not too upset its dependents are getting support from a different actor.

bosswipe 6y ago
> because one country is a superpower and a different country is the client. If you have really been paying attention to the US-Israel relationship you know that this is not true.
- yyyk 6y ago
  I say that precisely because I have been paying attention. The opposite impression is useful for both sides, but in reality America calls the shots. Israel would go against America's position only on issues it considers existential or close to such. I doubt NSO even registers.
  - bosswipe 6y ago
    Netanyahu ran campaign ads about how he undermined and disrespected Obama, even while getting Obama to give him a record $38 billion aid. He colluded with Flynn and the Russians to undermine Obama and promote Trump. He gets whatever he wants from the US. When he wanted to attack BDS he got the first piece of legislation out of the 2019 US Senate, bill S-1. That's more US political power than Chuck Schumer.
    - yyyk 6y ago
      "Netanyahu ran campaign ads about how he undermined and disrespected Obama" More accurately, he ran campaign ads arguing that he fought for Israel against the Iran deal. He further presented himself as a victim of Obama's disrespect, especially since the 'shoe on table' incident. [EDIT: "while getting Obama to give him a record $38 billion aid" Longstanding American policy to bolster its client, also a part of the Camp David accords. I do think the aid agreement should not be renewed next time since it's counterproductive to both sides. ] "He colluded with Flynn and the Russians to undermine Obama and promote Trump." Wrong. Note however that focusing on this conspiracy shows where the true power lies. When America interferes in Israeli politics it does so openly and without even much mention, because there's no point, it's that powerful (e.g. Clinton helping Peres and Barak, or V-15's funding). "He gets whatever he wants from the US." That's why he got the same terms from Obama as he did from Trump, right? After all, it's the same Nethanyahu. Nah. It's American policy that changed. All your list is part of Nethanyahu's mystique ("I speak perfect English! I can get the Americans to work in our favour! Even when the administration doesn't support me, because I have so many connections and am so convincing it doesn't matter!"), which is very good for him electorally, but most Israelis have woken up from that. P.S. "That's more US political power than Chuck Schumer." That's a trick question, right? Since Schumer has almost no power - no stage presence, minority in Senate. He can't even threaten the filibuster. (What would he filibuster? The Judicial filibuster has been cancelled, and the Republicans barely have a legislative agenda. After the GOP keeps majority, everything will be decided by Biden-GOP negotiations, and Schumer will have to sign the dotted line.)
      - mola 6y ago
        With the GOP his power is substantial. He is dangerous to Israel and the US. Dark times :(
namdnay 6y ago
The error here is in considering “America” as a single entity “America” may be more powerful than Israel, but no single American politician is more powerful than AIPAC
- mtgx 6y ago
  Pretty sure Bernie Sanders was more powerful than AIPAC. But the whole party rallied against him. Maybe AIPAC played a small role in that, too, but it was far from the only reason they did that.
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  NSO is a private company. It was even in foreign ownership up to not long ago (when it was repurchased by its original founders). This is not something AIPAC is concerned with. Clearly US government as well as Israeli government have some interest in letting NSO roll its operations (have any NSO officials been banned by the US? US knew to ban Israeli officials in the past, AIPAC or not).
- yyyk 6y ago
  AIPAC's secret is the impression it's so powerful, but whenever an American administration wanted to advance a policy AIPAC didn't like (from selling aircraft to the Saudis in the 80s all the way to the Iran Deal), AIPAC melted away. It has no power to defend NSO, and I doubt it even has an interest to.
  - SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
    And yet the Iran deal is gone and not coming back, and recently the US has pushed Arab states to normalize relations with Israel.
    - yyyk 6y ago
      Both due to Trump, not AIPAC. Biden is likely to restore the Iran deal, at least in form. US pushing mideast peace is longstanding American policy.

by yyyk 6y ago

bosswipe 6y ago

> because one country is a superpower and a different country is the client. If you have really been paying attention to the US-Israel relationship you know that this is not true.

yyyk 6y ago
I say that precisely because I have been paying attention. The opposite impression is useful for both sides, but in reality America calls the shots. Israel would go against America's position only on issues it considers existential or close to such. I doubt NSO even registers.
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Netanyahu ran campaign ads about how he undermined and disrespected Obama, even while getting Obama to give him a record $38 billion aid. He colluded with Flynn and the Russians to undermine Obama and promote Trump. He gets whatever he wants from the US. When he wanted to attack BDS he got the first piece of legislation out of the 2019 US Senate, bill S-1. That's more US political power than Chuck Schumer.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    "Netanyahu ran campaign ads about how he undermined and disrespected Obama" More accurately, he ran campaign ads arguing that he fought for Israel against the Iran deal. He further presented himself as a victim of Obama's disrespect, especially since the 'shoe on table' incident. [EDIT: "while getting Obama to give him a record $38 billion aid" Longstanding American policy to bolster its client, also a part of the Camp David accords. I do think the aid agreement should not be renewed next time since it's counterproductive to both sides. ] "He colluded with Flynn and the Russians to undermine Obama and promote Trump." Wrong. Note however that focusing on this conspiracy shows where the true power lies. When America interferes in Israeli politics it does so openly and without even much mention, because there's no point, it's that powerful (e.g. Clinton helping Peres and Barak, or V-15's funding). "He gets whatever he wants from the US." That's why he got the same terms from Obama as he did from Trump, right? After all, it's the same Nethanyahu. Nah. It's American policy that changed. All your list is part of Nethanyahu's mystique ("I speak perfect English! I can get the Americans to work in our favour! Even when the administration doesn't support me, because I have so many connections and am so convincing it doesn't matter!"), which is very good for him electorally, but most Israelis have woken up from that. P.S. "That's more US political power than Chuck Schumer." That's a trick question, right? Since Schumer has almost no power - no stage presence, minority in Senate. He can't even threaten the filibuster. (What would he filibuster? The Judicial filibuster has been cancelled, and the Republicans barely have a legislative agenda. After the GOP keeps majority, everything will be decided by Biden-GOP negotiations, and Schumer will have to sign the dotted line.)
    - mola 6y ago
      With the GOP his power is substantial. He is dangerous to Israel and the US. Dark times :(

namdnay 6y ago

The error here is in considering “America” as a single entity “America” may be more powerful than Israel, but no single American politician is more powerful than AIPAC

mtgx 6y ago
Pretty sure Bernie Sanders was more powerful than AIPAC. But the whole party rallied against him. Maybe AIPAC played a small role in that, too, but it was far from the only reason they did that.
flyinglizard 6y ago
NSO is a private company. It was even in foreign ownership up to not long ago (when it was repurchased by its original founders). This is not something AIPAC is concerned with. Clearly US government as well as Israeli government have some interest in letting NSO roll its operations (have any NSO officials been banned by the US? US knew to ban Israeli officials in the past, AIPAC or not).
yyyk 6y ago
AIPAC's secret is the impression it's so powerful, but whenever an American administration wanted to advance a policy AIPAC didn't like (from selling aircraft to the Saudis in the 80s all the way to the Iran Deal), AIPAC melted away. It has no power to defend NSO, and I doubt it even has an interest to.
- SpaceRaccoon 6y ago
  And yet the Iran deal is gone and not coming back, and recently the US has pushed Arab states to normalize relations with Israel.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    Both due to Trump, not AIPAC. Biden is likely to restore the Iran deal, at least in form. US pushing mideast peace is longstanding American policy.