3 ms·

It's still on sci-hub for now: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jceh.2018.08.002 https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jceh.2018.08.00...

ac29 6y ago
Some of that stuff is pretty thin - you'd expect to find 16s rRNA (microbial genetic material) in just about anything that contains biological material like herbs. The isolation and sequencing process for this type of material amplifies what is found in the sample by many orders of magnitude using techniques like PCR, so presence alone doesnt mean much - it certainly doesnt mean there were live, pathogenic bacteria in the sample (there are other, better tests for clinically relevant pathogens). I spent quite a few years doing metagenomic research, and let me tell you, bacteria and bacterial genetic material is everywhere. Most of the rest of the article I couldnt comment on, though I found it a little funny they list Humulus lupulus as a "suspected toxic component" - thats hops, the same hops used to make beer (also used in cosmetics and other products). Matricaria chamomilla is also listed as a suspected toxin. Its chamomile, the flower used to make the relatively common tea.
- abbyphilips 6y ago
  Bacterial and fungal contamination is quite common with plant derived dietary supplements. Ideally a microbial count should be performed. We did not expect to see various bacterial profiles in a vacuum packed food supplement. Also, Bacillus subtilis contamination in Herbalife has been reported before (Stickel et al, Journal of Hepatology). Please see this paper on plant origin dietary supplements and contamination potential. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362155/ This can actually promote spoilage and can lead to damaging consequences. Hops use other than in Beers - such as direct consumption has been shown to be toxic to animals and also adverse events have been noted in humans.Chamomile is usually safe, but its interaction with other herbs and herbal metabolites could lead to systemic toxicity. This is always a concern with polyherbal formulations.
userbinator 6y ago
The amount of barium and chromium in the samples they analysed is surprising.

ac29 6y ago

Some of that stuff is pretty thin - you'd expect to find 16s rRNA (microbial genetic material) in just about anything that contains biological material like herbs. The isolation and sequencing process for this type of material amplifies what is found in the sample by many orders of magnitude using techniques like PCR, so presence alone doesnt mean much - it certainly doesnt mean there were live, pathogenic bacteria in the sample (there are other, better tests for clinically relevant pathogens). I spent quite a few years doing metagenomic research, and let me tell you, bacteria and bacterial genetic material is everywhere. Most of the rest of the article I couldnt comment on, though I found it a little funny they list Humulus lupulus as a "suspected toxic component" - thats hops, the same hops used to make beer (also used in cosmetics and other products). Matricaria chamomilla is also listed as a suspected toxin. Its chamomile, the flower used to make the relatively common tea.

abbyphilips 6y ago
Bacterial and fungal contamination is quite common with plant derived dietary supplements. Ideally a microbial count should be performed. We did not expect to see various bacterial profiles in a vacuum packed food supplement. Also, Bacillus subtilis contamination in Herbalife has been reported before (Stickel et al, Journal of Hepatology). Please see this paper on plant origin dietary supplements and contamination potential. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362155/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6362155/ This can actually promote spoilage and can lead to damaging consequences. Hops use other than in Beers - such as direct consumption has been shown to be toxic to animals and also adverse events have been noted in humans.Chamomile is usually safe, but its interaction with other herbs and herbal metabolites could lead to systemic toxicity. This is always a concern with polyherbal formulations.

userbinator 6y ago

The amount of barium and chromium in the samples they analysed is surprising.