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> Why is it such an extremely hard to believe fact that maybe there are people out there that aren't doing it because they are desperate sluts that are failures

> Why is it such an extremely hard to believe fact that maybe there are people out there that aren't doing it because they are desperate sluts that are failures of society and are actually doing it because its work that they enjoy. Probably because we're biologically programmed to understand that's not the case? It boils down to a simple, but true, undeniable - and apparently for a lot of people, unpleasant - maxim from biology - Sperm are cheap, eggs are expensive. There's a reason that male birds evolved colorful plumage and in many cases, elaborate dance displays. There's a reason the males of hundreds of thousands of other species have evolved to impress females of their species. You may not like it. You may not agree with it. You may not condone it. But you're not going to change it. You don't have the power. The only thing that'll change this is time. Lots and lots of time. People think you can separate genetically reinforced biologically-ingrained biases from culture. You can't. You won't. No one can. It has to progress slowly, over time. The world that many progressive people want may come to pass one day, but it won't be today, it won't be tomorrow, it won't be 10 years from now, it won't be 100 years from now. Bookmark this comment and come back whenever you want. See how long it takes for the majority of society to shift. You'll have a very long wait.

worik 6y ago
Society is shifting. I have noticed huge changes in my life. The bigotry and prejudice about sexual desire and sexual "acting out" may or may not be due to some fantasy about the relative price of sperm and eggs. In other cultures, other places, other times that bigotry, prejudice, and shaming was/is not a thing. A equally valid possibility is the shaming of sex work is due to misogyny. It is the powerful men brought down by the "sluts and whores". Hence the shaming. I have a argument for that: In my country until recently it was a crime to offer sex for money but not pay money for sex. If the underlying cause was "relative cost" not misogyny then that difference would not exist
- cbozeman 6y ago
  You think its shifting because you're operating on a human lifetime timescale. I'm operating on a million year timescale. And don't think we can't move backwards from here... quickly, violently, and for many years, decades, even centuries. Its happened before with humanity. Who knows how many times before we had recorded records to reference?
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
i dont know why you are downvoted. i upvoted you. and bookmarked. having said that: gender is a spectrum. it's very fluid. it's true for all animals. including humans. but evolution takes millions of years. not the average human lifespan. unless. we modify it but it wont be natural selection that we can witness in our lifetimes.
mbrodersen 6y ago
You clearly have very limited experience with woman. Claiming that all woman are or are not X (for any X) shows that your view of woman is simple enough to almost be a caricature. I am interested in what evidence you have for “we’re biologically programmed to understand ...” I have never heard or seen any evidence for that. So it would be interesting to see what evidence you have for such a strong broad statement?
- cbozeman 6y ago
  > So it would be interesting to see what evidence you have for such a strong broad statement? The entirety of the field of evolutionary psychology. I had a huge post typed up, but I realize that because you immediately went on the attack: > You clearly have very limited experience with woman. You're not interested in actually learning anything. You think you already know. You think you've read all the literature. You actually think you're well-informed. What you want is for people to shut the fuck up and agree with, because you don't want your worldview challenged. > Claiming that all woman are or are not X (for any X) shows that your view of woman is simple enough to almost be a caricature. You talk about being a caricature, then immediately go for a statement like this, which is a combination of the worst kind of pedantry and high-functional mental disability... Here's one for you. Fact: Men are stronger than women. When a biologist says this, they don't mean every man is stronger than every woman. They mean almost all men are stronger than almost all women. This is one, of many papers in the field: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0265407513487638 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0265407513487638
  - mbrodersen 6y ago
    Here is a different way to put it: I don’t recognise woman that I have known, loved, made love to etc. in your description of woman. Which makes me believe that your arguments are not correct for woman in general. Unless of course the woman in my life (by some extraordinary coincidence) happens to be the only woman on the planet not fitting into your description. Highly unlikely but of course possible. I by the way recommend reading the papers showing that most “evidence” in Psychology is not reproducible i.e. not scientific. I would caution against basing your conclusions on them.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
Birds had too different evolution, they have roughly equal hard skills, which isn't true for humans. For humans sperm and eggs are entertainment and are quite high on Maslow pyramid, but the lower levels are solved only by men, and women have only eggs to offer in exchange (also developed plumage), and that's how they adapted, for them sex isn't entertainment, but survival, i.e. they are evolutionarily programmed for prostitution. And sex workers do enjoy sex, like everyone. You better make attractiveness of sex work your point.

worik 6y ago

Society is shifting. I have noticed huge changes in my life. The bigotry and prejudice about sexual desire and sexual "acting out" may or may not be due to some fantasy about the relative price of sperm and eggs. In other cultures, other places, other times that bigotry, prejudice, and shaming was/is not a thing. A equally valid possibility is the shaming of sex work is due to misogyny. It is the powerful men brought down by the "sluts and whores". Hence the shaming. I have a argument for that: In my country until recently it was a crime to offer sex for money but not pay money for sex. If the underlying cause was "relative cost" not misogyny then that difference would not exist

cbozeman 6y ago
You think its shifting because you're operating on a human lifetime timescale. I'm operating on a million year timescale. And don't think we can't move backwards from here... quickly, violently, and for many years, decades, even centuries. Its happened before with humanity. Who knows how many times before we had recorded records to reference?

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

i dont know why you are downvoted. i upvoted you. and bookmarked. having said that: gender is a spectrum. it's very fluid. it's true for all animals. including humans. but evolution takes millions of years. not the average human lifespan. unless. we modify it but it wont be natural selection that we can witness in our lifetimes.

mbrodersen 6y ago

You clearly have very limited experience with woman. Claiming that all woman are or are not X (for any X) shows that your view of woman is simple enough to almost be a caricature. I am interested in what evidence you have for “we’re biologically programmed to understand ...” I have never heard or seen any evidence for that. So it would be interesting to see what evidence you have for such a strong broad statement?

cbozeman 6y ago
> So it would be interesting to see what evidence you have for such a strong broad statement? The entirety of the field of evolutionary psychology. I had a huge post typed up, but I realize that because you immediately went on the attack: > You clearly have very limited experience with woman. You're not interested in actually learning anything. You think you already know. You think you've read all the literature. You actually think you're well-informed. What you want is for people to shut the fuck up and agree with, because you don't want your worldview challenged. > Claiming that all woman are or are not X (for any X) shows that your view of woman is simple enough to almost be a caricature. You talk about being a caricature, then immediately go for a statement like this, which is a combination of the worst kind of pedantry and high-functional mental disability... Here's one for you. Fact: Men are stronger than women. When a biologist says this, they don't mean every man is stronger than every woman. They mean almost all men are stronger than almost all women. This is one, of many papers in the field: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0265407513487638 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0265407513487638
- mbrodersen 6y ago
  Here is a different way to put it: I don’t recognise woman that I have known, loved, made love to etc. in your description of woman. Which makes me believe that your arguments are not correct for woman in general. Unless of course the woman in my life (by some extraordinary coincidence) happens to be the only woman on the planet not fitting into your description. Highly unlikely but of course possible. I by the way recommend reading the papers showing that most “evidence” in Psychology is not reproducible i.e. not scientific. I would caution against basing your conclusions on them.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

Birds had too different evolution, they have roughly equal hard skills, which isn't true for humans. For humans sperm and eggs are entertainment and are quite high on Maslow pyramid, but the lower levels are solved only by men, and women have only eggs to offer in exchange (also developed plumage), and that's how they adapted, for them sex isn't entertainment, but survival, i.e. they are evolutionarily programmed for prostitution. And sex workers do enjoy sex, like everyone. You better make attractiveness of sex work your point.