6 ms·

> That it hollows out the sanctity of this intimate and symbolic act. See that's the problem. We as a society need to stop putting sex on a pedestal. It's just

by tomc1985 6y ago

> That it hollows out the sanctity of this intimate and symbolic act. See that's the problem. We as a society need to stop putting sex on a pedestal. It's just sex. Pleasure is pleasure, why would anyone not want to be pleasured? And why is pleasure something that has to be earned? It is very simple to give and receive pleasure, why complicate that?

toomuchcredit 6y ago
Perhaps because many communities deeply believe sex is more than just for pleasure?
- Rapzid 6y ago
  But not for making babies, as per the astronomically high unplanned pregnancy rate.
- pstuart 6y ago
  ¿Por qué no los dos?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    You can’t both value and devalue something at once…
    - pstuart 6y ago
      Who's devaluing what? I'm suggesting that it can be valued for pleasure, and it can be valued for procreation. Because both are true (at least in the PIV scenario). The anti-sex folks are following old, overly simplistic, and ineffective campaigns to "protect people from themselves (via their genitals)". Most of it is well intended but oh so wrong. Edit: the only problem is the boundaries of power -- wanting to apply religious beliefs to the whole population rather than their particular sect. And I'd wager a fair amount of the conflict over this power is manufactured in order to keep the base riled up.
- scpedicini 6y ago
  Humans love to manufacture mysticism around the purely physical world. Symbolism is a terrifying thing. Nothing is anything more than it seems, and the sooner we get around to accepting that, the better off we'll be.
  - hattori31 6y ago
    So damn well said.
bonoboTP 6y ago
It's not just pleasure. It's intimacy, bonding hormone levels rising, etc. Why is it pleasurable? Because of evolution. Sex is complicated. https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/ People thought that after the pill, sex will become simple and uncomplicated, just have orgies for fun all the time. But it's not happening on a large scale even in the very liberal societies. There was a brief moment with the hippies, but it didn't last long. Yes there is hookup culture, but it's far from uncomplicated. It's not everyone can easily participate in and has its own little games. It's one of the fundamental components building our social fabric. Why does pleasure have to be earned? I'm not sure I subscribe to that, I probably need a few decades more of contemplation and experience to answer such a thing. I'm just saying that there is such a template in many people's moralities. I think it's kind of silly, because the universe doesn't care, it's not a vending machine to put in hard work and get rewards. It's way more random and unpredictable than that. Sometimes something easy gives you lots of reward, and toiling away in the wrong way leaves you with nothing. But on the whole, on a large scale, on a population level, at the expectation, you cannot get something out of nothing, it seems. It's not a law of physics or anything. It may also seem pseudo-religious. But overall it seems to be the strategy that people adopt who achieve things. That you need to put in effort to reap rewards. Otherwise all kinds of things can happen, like hedonic adaptation, setting your baseline at a different place, inflation of the value of things etc.
- hawk_ 6y ago
  Complications around sex purely for pleasure might have a lot to with STDs and may be some historical cultural baggage than bonding and intimacy issues.
cbozeman 6y ago
Something given has no value. The truest line from Starship Troopers.
- tomc1985 6y ago
  Sex is free. We are all equipped with the necessary hardware. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does it need to have "value"? This perception that it has value is one of the very things that people add just to complicate things. It isn't about value, or a chase, and to be honest I wish people would decouple it from anything more than intimacy. It should only be about getting you and your partner off. (And making babies, where wanted.) For something that builds up inside all of us, some of us very quickly, society should really try to make it easier for everyone to access, especially since we are all equipped to provide.
  - fuzxi 6y ago
    >Sex is free. We are all equipped with the necessary hardware. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does it need to have "value"? Everyone is equipped with the necessary hardware to work in my factory. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does your labor need to have "value"?
    - tomc1985 6y ago
      If you could make them think about and want to work in your factory the way they think about and want sex, you'd have a full roster every shift and would be turning people away. Such an oversupply would naturally see the value of that labor drop to near nothing.
      - fuzxi 6y ago
        If this were true, prostitution wouldn't exist because no one would be willing to pay for sex.
        tomc1985 6y ago

toomuchcredit 6y ago

Perhaps because many communities deeply believe sex is more than just for pleasure?

Rapzid 6y ago
But not for making babies, as per the astronomically high unplanned pregnancy rate.
pstuart 6y ago
¿Por qué no los dos?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  You can’t both value and devalue something at once…
  - pstuart 6y ago
    Who's devaluing what? I'm suggesting that it can be valued for pleasure, and it can be valued for procreation. Because both are true (at least in the PIV scenario). The anti-sex folks are following old, overly simplistic, and ineffective campaigns to "protect people from themselves (via their genitals)". Most of it is well intended but oh so wrong. Edit: the only problem is the boundaries of power -- wanting to apply religious beliefs to the whole population rather than their particular sect. And I'd wager a fair amount of the conflict over this power is manufactured in order to keep the base riled up.
scpedicini 6y ago
Humans love to manufacture mysticism around the purely physical world. Symbolism is a terrifying thing. Nothing is anything more than it seems, and the sooner we get around to accepting that, the better off we'll be.
- hattori31 6y ago
  So damn well said.

bonoboTP 6y ago

It's not just pleasure. It's intimacy, bonding hormone levels rising, etc. Why is it pleasurable? Because of evolution. Sex is complicated. https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/ People thought that after the pill, sex will become simple and uncomplicated, just have orgies for fun all the time. But it's not happening on a large scale even in the very liberal societies. There was a brief moment with the hippies, but it didn't last long. Yes there is hookup culture, but it's far from uncomplicated. It's not everyone can easily participate in and has its own little games. It's one of the fundamental components building our social fabric. Why does pleasure have to be earned? I'm not sure I subscribe to that, I probably need a few decades more of contemplation and experience to answer such a thing. I'm just saying that there is such a template in many people's moralities. I think it's kind of silly, because the universe doesn't care, it's not a vending machine to put in hard work and get rewards. It's way more random and unpredictable than that. Sometimes something easy gives you lots of reward, and toiling away in the wrong way leaves you with nothing. But on the whole, on a large scale, on a population level, at the expectation, you cannot get something out of nothing, it seems. It's not a law of physics or anything. It may also seem pseudo-religious. But overall it seems to be the strategy that people adopt who achieve things. That you need to put in effort to reap rewards. Otherwise all kinds of things can happen, like hedonic adaptation, setting your baseline at a different place, inflation of the value of things etc.

hawk_ 6y ago
Complications around sex purely for pleasure might have a lot to with STDs and may be some historical cultural baggage than bonding and intimacy issues.

cbozeman 6y ago

Something given has no value. The truest line from Starship Troopers.

tomc1985 6y ago
Sex is free. We are all equipped with the necessary hardware. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does it need to have "value"? This perception that it has value is one of the very things that people add just to complicate things. It isn't about value, or a chase, and to be honest I wish people would decouple it from anything more than intimacy. It should only be about getting you and your partner off. (And making babies, where wanted.) For something that builds up inside all of us, some of us very quickly, society should really try to make it easier for everyone to access, especially since we are all equipped to provide.
- fuzxi 6y ago
  >Sex is free. We are all equipped with the necessary hardware. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does it need to have "value"? Everyone is equipped with the necessary hardware to work in my factory. Barring health issues it costs nothing. Why does your labor need to have "value"?
  - tomc1985 6y ago
    If you could make them think about and want to work in your factory the way they think about and want sex, you'd have a full roster every shift and would be turning people away. Such an oversupply would naturally see the value of that labor drop to near nothing.
    - fuzxi 6y ago
      If this were true, prostitution wouldn't exist because no one would be willing to pay for sex.
      - tomc1985 6y ago