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> Then hop on the bus and have conversations with the 'average person'. You fill find somewhat less conscientious, less interested, less curious, less intellige

by _qulr 6y ago

> Then hop on the bus and have conversations with the 'average person'. You fill find somewhat less conscientious, less interested, less curious, less intelligent people. Wow, this is jaw-dropping stereotype. I used to ride the bus, and unsurprisingly, my level of intelligence was completely unaffected by the mode of transportation I happened to be using at the time. Also, public transportation is more environmentally friendly than everyone driving cars. Now that I think a little more about it, your comment is interesting because I'm wondering how much empirical experience you have striking up conversations with people on the bus? If you're a frequently bus rider, doesn't that make you, by your own argument, less intelligent?

username90 6y ago
He didn't say that bus riders are less intelligent. If you talk to a random person they are pretty dumb, and you find random people at busses. There isn't more to it than that. Personally I experienced the average person when I did my military duty. Most people were forced to attend so you got a good slice of what society looks like. And yes, the average person there wasn't that bright, the discussions I heard there was the dumbest I've ever experienced.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > If you talk to a random person they are pretty dumb, and you find random people at busses. No, that's not how randomness works. If you talk to sufficiently many random people, you will likely get a wide distribution of people. Besides, talking to strangers is not a good measure, because people are often guarded around strangers. Especially on the bus, I thought people who tried to talk to me out of the blue were a bit strange and to be avoided.
  - tyu2 6y ago
    It's also not random. I've talked a couple of times in my life to strangers in public transport, well, they actually talked to me, both times somehow accidentally people who I talked to were IT professionals, one was a programmer, the other one was a sysadmin and it was in the 90s in former soviet republic, hard to randomly encounter such people back then.
jariel 6y ago
As a non-car owner, I ride the bus almost daily. The average bus rider is less capable than the average Universality educated white collar tech worker in the professional sense, at least in terms of wage earning potential. Ironically it would be someone without exposure to the 'bus world' who would have some utopian view that somehow all these bus riders are 'the same as professionals'. My hunch is that it is white, upper middle class professionals without exposure who have this naive perspective as only entitled people can afford to. It's pretty obvious riding the bus daily, that on average, that is not the case. What is 'jaw dropping' is the lack of self awareness int many people seem to have difficulty accepting these simple facts, even if they don't 'feel' very nice. 'The bus' (esp. not the subway) is the domain of the urban working class - full stop. "is more environmentally friendly" - this is irrelevant to the argument - the question is, why imbue the debate with side-show moralizing? Those on ballpark equal footing who entered your high-school all had various opportunities in life, those who consistently put their best feet forward (usually measured by better grades but often not), were more consistently likely to have better opportunities. Not always, but usually. Those who entered the work force and did 'a terrible job' were, by and large - not advanced. Those who did 'a good job' - mostly had more opportunity. Obviously it's not always the case, but it usually is. The people going to Medical School, mostly, are really really impressive folks. The people stocking shelves, while they could be as great as pre-meds, and whatever talents they have are probably under utilized ... are nevertheless not in pre-med generally for good reason: the system is crudely meritocratic.
- tyu2 6y ago
  You should read some Nassim Taleb or something, because what you are saying is too nonsensical, like there is no awareness of chances in your arguments whatsoever, as if this dystopian concept of merit is somehow actually real.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > As a non-car owner, I ride the bus almost daily. > The average bus rider is less capable than the average Universality educated white collar tech worker in the professional sense, You ride the bus. Some university educated white collar tech workers ride the bus. So why even bring up the bus? Denigrating bus riders doesn't help your argument at all, it's a red herring, as is speaking of "average" people, because averages often overlook the wide range of values within the population. > at least in terms of wage earning potential. That's not the interesting question here, otherwise "we have a meritocracy" would be almost a tautology. > 'The bus' (esp. not the subway) is the domain of the urban working class - full stop. Maybe we shouldn't full stop, but rather talk about the demographics of the urban working class... > "is more environmentally friendly" - this is irrelevant to the argument - the question is, why imbue the debate with side-show moralizing? Because riding the bus could be seen as a sign of conscientiousness, education, and intelligence, in contrast to your characterization of bus riders, and refusal to ride the bus as a sign of selfishness and immorality. Personally, I make no generalizations about bus riders. I tended to keep to myself on public transportation and thought it strange when someone wanted to talk to a stranger out of the blue. So it would be very unlikely for anyone to have experienced an intelligent, interesting conversation with me on the bus, regardless of my level of intelligence. > the system is crudely meritocratic This is not the defense you think it is. Few think the system is entirely random, or on the other hand, perfect. The level of crudeness is precisely why we're constantly debating the system.

by _qulr 6y ago

username90 6y ago

He didn't say that bus riders are less intelligent. If you talk to a random person they are pretty dumb, and you find random people at busses. There isn't more to it than that. Personally I experienced the average person when I did my military duty. Most people were forced to attend so you got a good slice of what society looks like. And yes, the average person there wasn't that bright, the discussions I heard there was the dumbest I've ever experienced.

_qulr 6y ago
> If you talk to a random person they are pretty dumb, and you find random people at busses. No, that's not how randomness works. If you talk to sufficiently many random people, you will likely get a wide distribution of people. Besides, talking to strangers is not a good measure, because people are often guarded around strangers. Especially on the bus, I thought people who tried to talk to me out of the blue were a bit strange and to be avoided.
- tyu2 6y ago
  It's also not random. I've talked a couple of times in my life to strangers in public transport, well, they actually talked to me, both times somehow accidentally people who I talked to were IT professionals, one was a programmer, the other one was a sysadmin and it was in the 90s in former soviet republic, hard to randomly encounter such people back then.

jariel 6y ago

As a non-car owner, I ride the bus almost daily. The average bus rider is less capable than the average Universality educated white collar tech worker in the professional sense, at least in terms of wage earning potential. Ironically it would be someone without exposure to the 'bus world' who would have some utopian view that somehow all these bus riders are 'the same as professionals'. My hunch is that it is white, upper middle class professionals without exposure who have this naive perspective as only entitled people can afford to. It's pretty obvious riding the bus daily, that on average, that is not the case. What is 'jaw dropping' is the lack of self awareness int many people seem to have difficulty accepting these simple facts, even if they don't 'feel' very nice. 'The bus' (esp. not the subway) is the domain of the urban working class - full stop. "is more environmentally friendly" - this is irrelevant to the argument - the question is, why imbue the debate with side-show moralizing? Those on ballpark equal footing who entered your high-school all had various opportunities in life, those who consistently put their best feet forward (usually measured by better grades but often not), were more consistently likely to have better opportunities. Not always, but usually. Those who entered the work force and did 'a terrible job' were, by and large - not advanced. Those who did 'a good job' - mostly had more opportunity. Obviously it's not always the case, but it usually is. The people going to Medical School, mostly, are really really impressive folks. The people stocking shelves, while they could be as great as pre-meds, and whatever talents they have are probably under utilized ... are nevertheless not in pre-med generally for good reason: the system is crudely meritocratic.

tyu2 6y ago
You should read some Nassim Taleb or something, because what you are saying is too nonsensical, like there is no awareness of chances in your arguments whatsoever, as if this dystopian concept of merit is somehow actually real.
_qulr 6y ago
> As a non-car owner, I ride the bus almost daily. > The average bus rider is less capable than the average Universality educated white collar tech worker in the professional sense, You ride the bus. Some university educated white collar tech workers ride the bus. So why even bring up the bus? Denigrating bus riders doesn't help your argument at all, it's a red herring, as is speaking of "average" people, because averages often overlook the wide range of values within the population. > at least in terms of wage earning potential. That's not the interesting question here, otherwise "we have a meritocracy" would be almost a tautology. > 'The bus' (esp. not the subway) is the domain of the urban working class - full stop. Maybe we shouldn't full stop, but rather talk about the demographics of the urban working class... > "is more environmentally friendly" - this is irrelevant to the argument - the question is, why imbue the debate with side-show moralizing? Because riding the bus could be seen as a sign of conscientiousness, education, and intelligence, in contrast to your characterization of bus riders, and refusal to ride the bus as a sign of selfishness and immorality. Personally, I make no generalizations about bus riders. I tended to keep to myself on public transportation and thought it strange when someone wanted to talk to a stranger out of the blue. So it would be very unlikely for anyone to have experienced an intelligent, interesting conversation with me on the bus, regardless of my level of intelligence. > the system is crudely meritocratic This is not the defense you think it is. Few think the system is entirely random, or on the other hand, perfect. The level of crudeness is precisely why we're constantly debating the system.