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Anyone saying that this isn't possible in Berlin is stuck in 2010. Today there are most certainly well funded startups paying 100k for top senior engineers and/

by fab1an 6y ago

Anyone saying that this isn't possible in Berlin is stuck in 2010. Today there are most certainly well funded startups paying 100k for top senior engineers and/or managers, but that is in the top 10% of salaries in this field. Beyond startups, there are 1. some smaller, but crazy profitable software companies (think dozens of M in annual revenue with less than 50 staff and a handful of owners) that will also pay this type of salary and 2. some larger companies (think Zalando). Compared to US and esp Bay Area salaries (which ofc can be multiples of that) one needs to bear in mind massively cheaper costs of living (while often providing higher standards) - day care for kids for example is 100% free (as in tax funded) in Berlin. That being said, the pandemic is certainly taking its toll as many companies have gone into a hiring freeze. At the same time, the decline of SF and the remote work trend will likely mean an increase in intl salaries (due to Big Tech hiring remotely) and a decrease in SF salaries.

EdwinLarkin 6y ago
This is my experience as well. The smaller the company is in the DACH region the more it can afford to pay. On the other hand one downside is the lack of capital for anything else (like no perks or expensive hw or even being cheapskates when it comes to infra)
xienze 6y ago
> one needs to bear in mind massively cheaper costs of living Again, you don’t have to live in the Bay Area to make 100K+. You can easily pull that number with OP’s experience in the southeast, and I’d bet good money the cost of living is a lot cheaper than most anywhere in Europe. > day care for kids for example is 100% free (as in tax funded) in Berlin. This kind of hits at why some people prefer higher salary versus “free” government programs. My kids won’t need daycare forever. I’d rather make a helluva lot more money and pay for daycare out of pocket for the 5 years they actually need it than pay for everyone else’s free daycare for the entirety of my working life.
- tchalla 6y ago
  > This kind of hits at why some people prefer higher salary versus “free” government programs. My kids won’t need daycare forever. I’d rather make a helluva lot more money and pay for daycare out of pocket for the 5 years they actually need it than pay for everyone else’s free daycare for the entirety of my working life. Your kids will need school and university. That's pretty much "free" too in many EU countries.
  - xienze 6y ago
    And again, I’d rather pay for it out of pocket once than get taxed at a higher rate for my entire working life. There’s these things called “stocks” that may companies grant or provide at a discount. That combined with the effects of ~18 years of growth means getting your kids a head start on tuition isn’t nearly as expensive as you’d think.
    - tchalla 6y ago
      > I’d rather pay for it out of pocket once than get taxed at a higher rate for my entire working life. And some people would prefer to do otherwise. It's just a different method with people placing value on other things like 6-week vacation, childcare, tuition, health insurance etc coming from the state. Your value is different - I understand it and that's fine. You do not have to agree to the method, just understand the alternate perspective. The grandparent was trying to suggest a different method to reach the similar goals.
    - pasabagi 6y ago
      I think you're missing out on the network effects of social services. Not having desperate people means you don't have the threat of crime. You don't have police who are one twitch away from shooting you at a traffic stop. You can have an argument with somebody on the street and, chances are it will be a civil one because they're probably an educated, unstressed person with a fulfilling life. People can make crazy decisions like making art, or quitting a job because their boss is an asshole. You won't have to worry if your kids aren't accademic - they'll probably be able to find a way. There are tons of things like this, where you pay an enormous amount, but you gain an enormous amount more. The utility of money drops off pretty sharply above a certain amount. The utility of living in a well functioning society does not.
- fab1an 6y ago
  Yes, sure. Then again I'd prefer my kids to grow up in a society where almost everyone has similar access to daycare, schools and uni, as opposed an increasingly stratified one that ultimately isn't safe outside of your gated community..

by fab1an 6y ago

EdwinLarkin 6y ago

This is my experience as well. The smaller the company is in the DACH region the more it can afford to pay. On the other hand one downside is the lack of capital for anything else (like no perks or expensive hw or even being cheapskates when it comes to infra)

xienze 6y ago

> one needs to bear in mind massively cheaper costs of living Again, you don’t have to live in the Bay Area to make 100K+. You can easily pull that number with OP’s experience in the southeast, and I’d bet good money the cost of living is a lot cheaper than most anywhere in Europe. > day care for kids for example is 100% free (as in tax funded) in Berlin. This kind of hits at why some people prefer higher salary versus “free” government programs. My kids won’t need daycare forever. I’d rather make a helluva lot more money and pay for daycare out of pocket for the 5 years they actually need it than pay for everyone else’s free daycare for the entirety of my working life.

tchalla 6y ago
> This kind of hits at why some people prefer higher salary versus “free” government programs. My kids won’t need daycare forever. I’d rather make a helluva lot more money and pay for daycare out of pocket for the 5 years they actually need it than pay for everyone else’s free daycare for the entirety of my working life. Your kids will need school and university. That's pretty much "free" too in many EU countries.
- xienze 6y ago
  And again, I’d rather pay for it out of pocket once than get taxed at a higher rate for my entire working life. There’s these things called “stocks” that may companies grant or provide at a discount. That combined with the effects of ~18 years of growth means getting your kids a head start on tuition isn’t nearly as expensive as you’d think.
  - tchalla 6y ago
    > I’d rather pay for it out of pocket once than get taxed at a higher rate for my entire working life. And some people would prefer to do otherwise. It's just a different method with people placing value on other things like 6-week vacation, childcare, tuition, health insurance etc coming from the state. Your value is different - I understand it and that's fine. You do not have to agree to the method, just understand the alternate perspective. The grandparent was trying to suggest a different method to reach the similar goals.
  - pasabagi 6y ago
    I think you're missing out on the network effects of social services. Not having desperate people means you don't have the threat of crime. You don't have police who are one twitch away from shooting you at a traffic stop. You can have an argument with somebody on the street and, chances are it will be a civil one because they're probably an educated, unstressed person with a fulfilling life. People can make crazy decisions like making art, or quitting a job because their boss is an asshole. You won't have to worry if your kids aren't accademic - they'll probably be able to find a way. There are tons of things like this, where you pay an enormous amount, but you gain an enormous amount more. The utility of money drops off pretty sharply above a certain amount. The utility of living in a well functioning society does not.
fab1an 6y ago
Yes, sure. Then again I'd prefer my kids to grow up in a society where almost everyone has similar access to daycare, schools and uni, as opposed an increasingly stratified one that ultimately isn't safe outside of your gated community..