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This guy seems to be operating on the assumption that MEN are to blame for pornography's status as a social pariah. As if mothers everywhere would be proud of

This guy seems to be operating on the assumption that MEN are to blame for pornography's status as a social pariah. As if mothers everywhere would be proud of their daughters producing pornography on Onlyfans if only their husbands weren't in their ear shaming them.

lumberjack 6y ago
The author is trying to hijack contemporary moral outrage against legitimate cases of sexism to try to legitimize a pimp business.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  And you’re trying to hijack moral outrage against these people by calling it a pimp business, are you not?
est31 6y ago
Those same mothers would likely be very glad if their daughter got a man with a well paying job, lots of money, and a big house. They think more in terms of their generation, how women's access to status worked back when they were young. Onlyfans opens a different way for attractive women to attain wealth. Much safer, and with way less pain involved than going through a marriage that was done for the money instead of for love, plus a painful divorce afterwards.
- jejejfjf 6y ago
  Or, you know, they could go get a real job. I heard lots of women are doing that these days and they're being pretty successful. I'm sure those same mothers would be equally glad if they got a proper high-paying job.
  - qchris 6y ago
    Feels like the definition of a No True Scotsman fallacy. Maybe they should drive an Uber instead? No, that's not a real job, just a side gig. How about working at a drive-thru? Nope, that's supposed to a temporary stop for high schoolers. How about [...] (equally dismissive judgement). These are adult humans putting out content and getting paid for it. That makes it a real job.
    - jejejfjf 6y ago
      > Maybe they should drive an Uber instead? No, that's not a real job, just a side gig. How about working at a drive-thru? Nope, that's supposed to a temporary stop for high schoolers. How about [...] (equally dismissive judgement). When did I say any of that? Those are all real jobs. Besides, I was replying to the GP's claim that Onlyfans is the "empowering alternative" to the traditional path of getting a husband with a well-paying job. There exists a third option.
  - est31 6y ago
    Reading about sums like 100k per month makes it sound like a real job to me... Note that I'm only talking about that subset of girls on Onlyfans who make relevant sums of income, not the large number who doesn't. Ultimately everyone sells some part of themselves.
- fullshark 6y ago
  Well that is a truly cynical perspective on life and marriage.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - est31 6y ago
    Not every marriage is that way, there are many marriages where real love exists for decades. Those are a great ideal to strive for! But status and wealth is and remains a big component in the dating market.
    - cute_boi 6y ago
      agree :) The reason status and wealth remains big is most people wants easy life. And we people are taught we should work hard to earn money from school level. Society say we should become Doctor/engineer/High Level Manager at least where I live. If we can marry rich people and live happy life why not?
- humanrebar 6y ago
  There are millennials with teenage daughters now. Older mothers with teenages daughters grew up watching Madonna videos on MTV. I'll need more explanation to understand the generational gap you're describing.
SolarNet 6y ago
> This guy seems to be operating on the assumption that MEN are to blame for pornography's status as a social pariah It's called the patriarchy for a reason. I don't know about you, but the priests I see ranting about pornography, the politicians I see talking about regulating it, the police who harass sex workers, people running groups like nofap, so on and so on, are men. Yes of course women also contribute to it. But when I read the article, I didn't so much see it as blaming men, as explaining how the current social system is organized, and how that relates to gender. This is the point of the critical study of gender (AKA Women's Studies), not laying blame, but describing the system and how to confront it. Not understanding that, treating it like someone is trying to blame an entire gender, rather than simply explaining how we got here, is why people make jokes about fragile masculinity and snowflakes on the right.
- Chris2048 6y ago
  > It's called the patriarchy for a reason That reason being, this is what many feminists think. And the rest of society don't call it the patriarchy for a reason too. There are plenty female Catholics, even if there priests aren't (what about nuns?), Politicians/police follow societal cues. AFAIK, nofap has little to do with disdain for porn, and the people involved hardly represent society. > as explaining how the current social system is organized highlighting that the industry is run by men is otherwise irrelevant; unless you are blaming this fact as relevant. > Not understanding that There is nothing to "understand", this is just your opinion, not established fact. People do indeed make jokes about "fragile masculinity" etc - and those people are feminists, and there are plenty of jokes at their expense too (and afaik "snowflake" is usually applied to the left).
- erklik 6y ago
  >NoFap How is people recognising that they have a problem and are unhealthily addicted to something somehow a bad thing? High speed ultra hd pornogrpahy desensitises the mind into looking for constantly more "extreme" content leading to a race to the bottom with many losing desire for the "normal". There's nothing wrong with that. Putting Porn on this pedestals where it's all good and there's nothing wrong with it is as bad as making it some sort of extreme horrible thing that we must shame and hide. Moderation is good.
noobermin 6y ago
Men are a big part of it but patriarchy is promulgated by all of society, not just men.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  Then perhaps "patriarchy" is a misleading name.

lumberjack 6y ago

The author is trying to hijack contemporary moral outrage against legitimate cases of sexism to try to legitimize a pimp business.

saagarjha 6y ago
And you’re trying to hijack moral outrage against these people by calling it a pimp business, are you not?

est31 6y ago

Those same mothers would likely be very glad if their daughter got a man with a well paying job, lots of money, and a big house. They think more in terms of their generation, how women's access to status worked back when they were young. Onlyfans opens a different way for attractive women to attain wealth. Much safer, and with way less pain involved than going through a marriage that was done for the money instead of for love, plus a painful divorce afterwards.

jejejfjf 6y ago
Or, you know, they could go get a real job. I heard lots of women are doing that these days and they're being pretty successful. I'm sure those same mothers would be equally glad if they got a proper high-paying job.
- qchris 6y ago
  Feels like the definition of a No True Scotsman fallacy. Maybe they should drive an Uber instead? No, that's not a real job, just a side gig. How about working at a drive-thru? Nope, that's supposed to a temporary stop for high schoolers. How about [...] (equally dismissive judgement). These are adult humans putting out content and getting paid for it. That makes it a real job.
  - jejejfjf 6y ago
    > Maybe they should drive an Uber instead? No, that's not a real job, just a side gig. How about working at a drive-thru? Nope, that's supposed to a temporary stop for high schoolers. How about [...] (equally dismissive judgement). When did I say any of that? Those are all real jobs. Besides, I was replying to the GP's claim that Onlyfans is the "empowering alternative" to the traditional path of getting a husband with a well-paying job. There exists a third option.
- est31 6y ago
  Reading about sums like 100k per month makes it sound like a real job to me... Note that I'm only talking about that subset of girls on Onlyfans who make relevant sums of income, not the large number who doesn't. Ultimately everyone sells some part of themselves.
fullshark 6y ago
Well that is a truly cynical perspective on life and marriage.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- est31 6y ago
  Not every marriage is that way, there are many marriages where real love exists for decades. Those are a great ideal to strive for! But status and wealth is and remains a big component in the dating market.
  - cute_boi 6y ago
    agree :) The reason status and wealth remains big is most people wants easy life. And we people are taught we should work hard to earn money from school level. Society say we should become Doctor/engineer/High Level Manager at least where I live. If we can marry rich people and live happy life why not?
humanrebar 6y ago
There are millennials with teenage daughters now. Older mothers with teenages daughters grew up watching Madonna videos on MTV. I'll need more explanation to understand the generational gap you're describing.

SolarNet 6y ago

> This guy seems to be operating on the assumption that MEN are to blame for pornography's status as a social pariah It's called the patriarchy for a reason. I don't know about you, but the priests I see ranting about pornography, the politicians I see talking about regulating it, the police who harass sex workers, people running groups like nofap, so on and so on, are men. Yes of course women also contribute to it. But when I read the article, I didn't so much see it as blaming men, as explaining how the current social system is organized, and how that relates to gender. This is the point of the critical study of gender (AKA Women's Studies), not laying blame, but describing the system and how to confront it. Not understanding that, treating it like someone is trying to blame an entire gender, rather than simply explaining how we got here, is why people make jokes about fragile masculinity and snowflakes on the right.

Chris2048 6y ago
> It's called the patriarchy for a reason That reason being, this is what many feminists think. And the rest of society don't call it the patriarchy for a reason too. There are plenty female Catholics, even if there priests aren't (what about nuns?), Politicians/police follow societal cues. AFAIK, nofap has little to do with disdain for porn, and the people involved hardly represent society. > as explaining how the current social system is organized highlighting that the industry is run by men is otherwise irrelevant; unless you are blaming this fact as relevant. > Not understanding that There is nothing to "understand", this is just your opinion, not established fact. People do indeed make jokes about "fragile masculinity" etc - and those people are feminists, and there are plenty of jokes at their expense too (and afaik "snowflake" is usually applied to the left).
erklik 6y ago
>NoFap How is people recognising that they have a problem and are unhealthily addicted to something somehow a bad thing? High speed ultra hd pornogrpahy desensitises the mind into looking for constantly more "extreme" content leading to a race to the bottom with many losing desire for the "normal". There's nothing wrong with that. Putting Porn on this pedestals where it's all good and there's nothing wrong with it is as bad as making it some sort of extreme horrible thing that we must shame and hide. Moderation is good.

noobermin 6y ago

Men are a big part of it but patriarchy is promulgated by all of society, not just men.

Viliam1234 6y ago
Then perhaps "patriarchy" is a misleading name.