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This is a super good read, if you have 10 minutes I highly recommend. I have absolutely no problems with pornography and if my own daughter decided this was the

This is a super good read, if you have 10 minutes I highly recommend. I have absolutely no problems with pornography and if my own daughter decided this was the industry she wanted to enter I would help jumpstart her career anyway I could just as I would any career she chose. My wife and I are very free spirits and the previous HN discussions on Pornhub / NYT article made me feel like I was taking crazy pills and living in 1850’s Victorian England. The pearl clutching was so intense I was very worried the pearls would break from pressure! The vast majority of those that enter the sex business are consenting adults with free agency and control over their own actions. That some people are angry later and feel shame is a result of society disapproving of their decision rather than genuine harm caused to them. We need to change attitudes towards sex work to remove the shame rather than stop entry into a massively popular and universal industry that crosses all cultures. Vice - and by that I mean sex, drugs, and rock and roll - is best consumed in moderation and the human experience is improved because of it. Prohibition and outlawing massively popular industries drives them underground but does not eliminate the demand, overall harming the people who work in the business. The insane shutdown of Backpage, a website whose operators worked closely with law enforcement, just drove the prostitution industry underground and made it even harder for detectives to do their jobs. Furthermore the internet is global and shutting down western sites just moves them offshore where they are just as easily accessible but basically impossible to shut down. In summation I applaud OnlyFans and wish that there was less shame and more support to employees of businesses like pornography that provide massive enjoyment and receive tons of hate for literally zero reason when analyzed rationally.

DanBC 6y ago
How would you feel if your underage daughter did not want to work in porn, but someone covertly recorded her having sex and uploaded it to pornhub? Because that's what was happening: mass unconsensual sharing of images, including images of children.
- seibelj 6y ago
  Google also indexes and returns results for websites that host not only illegal underage porn but terrorism websites, racist websites, etc. and profit from it but we give them a pass? You are making a “what about this??” argument and ignoring that they have mechanisms in place to remove illegal content which any website that allows user-generated content cannot control. My critique is more about the wide disapproval of the porn industry itself, which you can already see in the comments of this post, which I find both absurd and harmful to the vast majority of legitimate employees of this very popular and mainstream industry.
  - claudeganon 6y ago
    Pornhub was widely damaging to the “the vast majority of legitimate employees“ in the industry. It built itself by stealing their work using the paper-thin ruse of “user-uploaded” videos, pushing down wages, working conditions and establishing itself as a quasi-monopoly player who could further set terms to its advantage and against sex worker and smaller companies. This has all been quite well documented. The conflation of puritanical objections to pornography with opposition to their regime of theft and worse is nothing other than a cynical maneuver meant to distract from the operation and consequences of their enterprise.
- africanboy 6y ago
  It was already happening 40 years ago with VHS cameras. I'd say that knowing that everyone in school saw you having sex it's worse. If the problem is "mass unconsensual sharing of images" social networks are a lot worse than any porn website. There are tens of unauthorized pictures of people faces and properties on social networks, not counting kid pictures. Does PornHub keeps a list of shadow profiles like FB does? I don't think so. If I was a parent my biggest issue would be the "not consensual" part of the story. Because it's rape.
- wolco2 6y ago
  Let's start at the beginning. Teenagers are secretly recording girls on there phones having sex with them. They use a phone and save the video. They share clips with friends on snapchat They send full length clips via google drive or other file sharing programs. A friend may upload to pornhub and random people can see. Under 200 videos in 3 years were found. You think by shutting down pornhub it stop this? Your daughter is safe? You are focusing on the least important part of the chain. If pornhub doesn't exist this is shared on xxxvideos or vk or someother service. If you really wanted to stop the problem you have to halt the chain of events earlier.
HuwytNashi_002 6y ago
>if my own daughter decided this was the industry she wanted to enter I would help jumpstart her career Luckily for you, engaging in porn is strongly correlated with the absence of a loving father. Hopefully she rebels and comes to value her dignity and virtue, even if you don't.
_huayra_ 6y ago
> We need to change attitudes towards sex work to remove the shame rather than stop entry into a massively popular and universal industry that crosses all cultures. Legalizing, but heavily regulating vices is definitely the way to go. I think a lot of European countries have good models for this (Switzerland and Amsterdam come to mind). The demand for these things is going to exist, and is usually best if it is legalized and put into red light districts / out of public, etc. That said, social tolerance should not devolve into some sort of forced social acceptance for the "liberation" of sex work. Just as any woman should be free to engage in sex work, I should be free to judge her for it (just as my girlfriend would be justified in asking about whether I ever purchased sex work). Just as anyone should be able to eat what they want, health consequences be damned, I should be able to call them "fat" instead of whatever PC word people use these days like "rotund" or "plus-sized", etc. Both of those are choices, and adults have to accept the consequences of those choices (unlike inherent things like sexual orientation or skin color). I cannot go and get a bunch of face tattoos and then whine about lack of acceptance when I get turned down for client-facing tech jobs. You can't have your cake (engage in sex work, on either side of the transaction) and eat it too (complain about how society does not accept your decision with open arms). It's ironic that folks who are all about "freedom" are more than willing to call the Thought Police because society doesn't agree with them. There's also a difference between certain things that had been considered taboo / forbidden but are now accepted vs. sex work and drugs: the ends do not justify the means. Allowing gay marriage provides an ends (i.e. more people, LGBTQ folks, who can live on equal legal footing as hetero folks) that more than justify the means (accepting that societally and legally). Legalizing drugs that allow folks to alter their conscience more than justifies the legalizing and shift in attitude. What are the ends / results for sex work? While certain sex workers may make an inordinate amount of cash (which is certainly their right to do in a free market exchange), sex work does not provide a net benefit to society. It ruins relationships (e.g. infidelity with porn or physical sex acts, harming unwitting partners and children of the transgressors) and prevents them from even starting (e.g. stunted personal development due to excessive porn use, as I have seen in a lot of my male colleagues who were the first generation to grow up with high speed internet porn and are now in their early 30s and have no idea how to connect with a partner as a human being and not just a sex object; or in women who sell their bodies one way or another and then end up in no relationship or in an abusive or otherwise substandard relationship because they neglected to build career and interpersonal skills that could benefit them and their pursuit towards self-actualization). Although these harms cannot and should not be regulated against by the government, it would be reckless to encourage ignorance of the societal harms.
sillysaurusx 6y ago
For what it's worth, I agree with you, and I'm shocked at the attitudes here. Don't worry, you're not the crazy one. I wrote a few lines of speculation, but all of them would piss people off. Suffice to say, just ignore the negativity and express your opinions thoughtfully, as you did here.
wsc981 6y ago
While I kinda feel the same like you ... I have a 3.5 year old daughter now and if she later wants to become a prostitute or work in porn, I'd support her. There are some people that really enjoy this kind of work, for example check out this interview with Lisa Ann [0] ... she really enjoyed her work in porn but was very careful to not catch diseases and it was always a worry for her. But if my daughter would consider one of those jobs, I would make sure she would be very aware of the risks and I'm not just talking about the STDs. I'd make her aware that it could be extremely hard to find a different job, especially after a career in porn. And also, if my daughter would get children of her own, children could be bullied if they discover their mother worked in porn. Also, it does seem a lot of actors and actresses in porn are from broken families and that is kind of sad. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPT1TKFmv_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPT1TKFmv_o
notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Insane kind of stuff you can only read online like "I would jumpstart my daughter's career in pornography"
tacommonsense 6y ago
> I have absolutely no problems with pornography and if my own daughter decided this was the industry she wanted to enter I would help jumpstart her career anyway I could just as I would any career she chose. > My wife and I are very free spirits and the previous HN discussions on Pornhub / NYT article made me feel like I was taking crazy pills and living in 1850’s Victorian England. The pearl clutching was so intense I was very worried the pearls would break from pressure! Maybe because almost no man of any quality whatsoever would want to raise a daughter to be a whore, used and abused in all degrading possible ways. Funny that. There is nothing "free" or "progressive" or any 2020 buzzword that would make this argument anything other than disgusting. As if raising your daughter to be used in gangbangs and things like that is anything other than pure form of degeneracy and the absolute lowest of the low. Some people think that just because they are capable of doing the god awful nasty things that no sane man or woman would do, that they are somehow "progressive" as if that takes some special skill or something... What skill do women need to have in porn? Fake tits, fake lips, fake asses in some cases, fake everything.. they just get paid a lot of money because there are not enough insane people that want to do it. Fathers talking about daughters being literal whores. Jumpstarting... What is happening with this world..
- notsureaboutpg 6y ago
  Yes these people are absolutely disgusting and when pressed they say "Woah, are youjudging people for being comfortable with their sexual expression???" Yes, yes we are. The most comfortable life isn't the most worthy life to live. We don't value people for making money off sex because that's degenerate.

DanBC 6y ago

How would you feel if your underage daughter did not want to work in porn, but someone covertly recorded her having sex and uploaded it to pornhub? Because that's what was happening: mass unconsensual sharing of images, including images of children.

seibelj 6y ago
Google also indexes and returns results for websites that host not only illegal underage porn but terrorism websites, racist websites, etc. and profit from it but we give them a pass? You are making a “what about this??” argument and ignoring that they have mechanisms in place to remove illegal content which any website that allows user-generated content cannot control. My critique is more about the wide disapproval of the porn industry itself, which you can already see in the comments of this post, which I find both absurd and harmful to the vast majority of legitimate employees of this very popular and mainstream industry.
- claudeganon 6y ago
  Pornhub was widely damaging to the “the vast majority of legitimate employees“ in the industry. It built itself by stealing their work using the paper-thin ruse of “user-uploaded” videos, pushing down wages, working conditions and establishing itself as a quasi-monopoly player who could further set terms to its advantage and against sex worker and smaller companies. This has all been quite well documented. The conflation of puritanical objections to pornography with opposition to their regime of theft and worse is nothing other than a cynical maneuver meant to distract from the operation and consequences of their enterprise.
africanboy 6y ago
It was already happening 40 years ago with VHS cameras. I'd say that knowing that everyone in school saw you having sex it's worse. If the problem is "mass unconsensual sharing of images" social networks are a lot worse than any porn website. There are tens of unauthorized pictures of people faces and properties on social networks, not counting kid pictures. Does PornHub keeps a list of shadow profiles like FB does? I don't think so. If I was a parent my biggest issue would be the "not consensual" part of the story. Because it's rape.
wolco2 6y ago
Let's start at the beginning. Teenagers are secretly recording girls on there phones having sex with them. They use a phone and save the video. They share clips with friends on snapchat They send full length clips via google drive or other file sharing programs. A friend may upload to pornhub and random people can see. Under 200 videos in 3 years were found. You think by shutting down pornhub it stop this? Your daughter is safe? You are focusing on the least important part of the chain. If pornhub doesn't exist this is shared on xxxvideos or vk or someother service. If you really wanted to stop the problem you have to halt the chain of events earlier.

HuwytNashi_002 6y ago

>if my own daughter decided this was the industry she wanted to enter I would help jumpstart her career Luckily for you, engaging in porn is strongly correlated with the absence of a loving father. Hopefully she rebels and comes to value her dignity and virtue, even if you don't.

_huayra_ 6y ago

> We need to change attitudes towards sex work to remove the shame rather than stop entry into a massively popular and universal industry that crosses all cultures. Legalizing, but heavily regulating vices is definitely the way to go. I think a lot of European countries have good models for this (Switzerland and Amsterdam come to mind). The demand for these things is going to exist, and is usually best if it is legalized and put into red light districts / out of public, etc. That said, social tolerance should not devolve into some sort of forced social acceptance for the "liberation" of sex work. Just as any woman should be free to engage in sex work, I should be free to judge her for it (just as my girlfriend would be justified in asking about whether I ever purchased sex work). Just as anyone should be able to eat what they want, health consequences be damned, I should be able to call them "fat" instead of whatever PC word people use these days like "rotund" or "plus-sized", etc. Both of those are choices, and adults have to accept the consequences of those choices (unlike inherent things like sexual orientation or skin color). I cannot go and get a bunch of face tattoos and then whine about lack of acceptance when I get turned down for client-facing tech jobs. You can't have your cake (engage in sex work, on either side of the transaction) and eat it too (complain about how society does not accept your decision with open arms). It's ironic that folks who are all about "freedom" are more than willing to call the Thought Police because society doesn't agree with them. There's also a difference between certain things that had been considered taboo / forbidden but are now accepted vs. sex work and drugs: the ends do not justify the means. Allowing gay marriage provides an ends (i.e. more people, LGBTQ folks, who can live on equal legal footing as hetero folks) that more than justify the means (accepting that societally and legally). Legalizing drugs that allow folks to alter their conscience more than justifies the legalizing and shift in attitude. What are the ends / results for sex work? While certain sex workers may make an inordinate amount of cash (which is certainly their right to do in a free market exchange), sex work does not provide a net benefit to society. It ruins relationships (e.g. infidelity with porn or physical sex acts, harming unwitting partners and children of the transgressors) and prevents them from even starting (e.g. stunted personal development due to excessive porn use, as I have seen in a lot of my male colleagues who were the first generation to grow up with high speed internet porn and are now in their early 30s and have no idea how to connect with a partner as a human being and not just a sex object; or in women who sell their bodies one way or another and then end up in no relationship or in an abusive or otherwise substandard relationship because they neglected to build career and interpersonal skills that could benefit them and their pursuit towards self-actualization). Although these harms cannot and should not be regulated against by the government, it would be reckless to encourage ignorance of the societal harms.

sillysaurusx 6y ago

For what it's worth, I agree with you, and I'm shocked at the attitudes here. Don't worry, you're not the crazy one. I wrote a few lines of speculation, but all of them would piss people off. Suffice to say, just ignore the negativity and express your opinions thoughtfully, as you did here.

wsc981 6y ago

While I kinda feel the same like you ... I have a 3.5 year old daughter now and if she later wants to become a prostitute or work in porn, I'd support her. There are some people that really enjoy this kind of work, for example check out this interview with Lisa Ann [0] ... she really enjoyed her work in porn but was very careful to not catch diseases and it was always a worry for her. But if my daughter would consider one of those jobs, I would make sure she would be very aware of the risks and I'm not just talking about the STDs. I'd make her aware that it could be extremely hard to find a different job, especially after a career in porn. And also, if my daughter would get children of her own, children could be bullied if they discover their mother worked in porn. Also, it does seem a lot of actors and actresses in porn are from broken families and that is kind of sad. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPT1TKFmv_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPT1TKFmv_o

notsureaboutpg 6y ago

Insane kind of stuff you can only read online like "I would jumpstart my daughter's career in pornography"

tacommonsense 6y ago

> I have absolutely no problems with pornography and if my own daughter decided this was the industry she wanted to enter I would help jumpstart her career anyway I could just as I would any career she chose. > My wife and I are very free spirits and the previous HN discussions on Pornhub / NYT article made me feel like I was taking crazy pills and living in 1850’s Victorian England. The pearl clutching was so intense I was very worried the pearls would break from pressure! Maybe because almost no man of any quality whatsoever would want to raise a daughter to be a whore, used and abused in all degrading possible ways. Funny that. There is nothing "free" or "progressive" or any 2020 buzzword that would make this argument anything other than disgusting. As if raising your daughter to be used in gangbangs and things like that is anything other than pure form of degeneracy and the absolute lowest of the low. Some people think that just because they are capable of doing the god awful nasty things that no sane man or woman would do, that they are somehow "progressive" as if that takes some special skill or something... What skill do women need to have in porn? Fake tits, fake lips, fake asses in some cases, fake everything.. they just get paid a lot of money because there are not enough insane people that want to do it. Fathers talking about daughters being literal whores. Jumpstarting... What is happening with this world..

notsureaboutpg 6y ago
Yes these people are absolutely disgusting and when pressed they say "Woah, are youjudging people for being comfortable with their sexual expression???" Yes, yes we are. The most comfortable life isn't the most worthy life to live. We don't value people for making money off sex because that's degenerate.