4 ms·

That is like saying, why do people use C++ to make fast compilers, couldn't they just add a fast compiler for Python and everybody is happy? You interface whet

That is like saying, why do people use C++ to make fast compilers, couldn't they just add a fast compiler for Python and everybody is happy? You interface whether a programming language, library API or and ISA has strong implications for what optimization and implementer than do. The ARM ISA has many advantages over x86: 1) Fixed sized instructions, which make it easier to add more instruction decoders. Discussed here: https://debugger.medium.com/why-is-apples-m1-chip-so-fast-3262b158cba2 https://debugger.medium.com/why-is-apples-m1-chip-so-fast-32... 2) More registers. ARM64 has 32 general purpose registers and 32 registers for SIMD stuff. x86 has fewer registers which are also wasted on all sorts of legacy junk. 3) More lax restrictions on memory-write back. It is easier to optimize the Out-of-Order execution on ARM, as you don't need to write back everything in order to memory. As for everybody else. ARM designs from ARM Ltd. is showing rapid performance increases and gradually closing the gap to x86. It really is inevitable as there is NOTHING special about the x86 ISA that gives it higher performance. Nothing prevents other ARM makers from catching up: https://medium.com/swlh/is-it-game-over-for-the-x86-isa-and-intel-5ce1b00fbd1 https://medium.com/swlh/is-it-game-over-for-the-x86-isa-and-...

iridium_core 6y ago
With all of these advantages why don't the PS5 and XboxSeriesX use ARM? Do they have plans to for the next generation?
- ksec 6y ago
  1. They want some level of backward compatibility, and they were on x86 before. 2. Most of the Tools and Library they used are on x86. Not only from MS & Sony, but also Game developers. It is going to take some courage to change all of that. 3. When the design of PS5 and Xbox X started, none of the ARM CPU IP design, ( In fact even as of today and next year, or may be even 2022 ) has a Single Core Performance that rivals AMD's Zen 2, and certainly not Apple's M1. 4. GPU IP, both are from AMD. Which may actually be more important that the CPU IP from a gaming perspective. 5. In case you ask why not Nvidia then since they made ARM SoC like those in Nintendo. Nvidia's pricing for latest Gen IP is way out of touch. Hence that is why you only see non-leading edge tech used in Switch. ( Nvidia is not a player that wants to sacrifice Margin for Market Share, which is actually a fair point )
- socialdemocrat 6y ago
  Nobody is selling high performance ARM chips. Apple isn't selling their chips. ARM from others have been optimized for micro controllers, phones, servers and super computers. Not for high performance desktop system of game consoles. If you wanted a high performance alternative to x86 in the past, you would have to go with PowerPC, which Playstation famously did with Playstation 3. Except that was a disaster because the architecture was too novel. That experience made Sony, very afraid of doing anything unconventional hardware wise. But I supposed Apple may have opened the flood gates and my prediction would be that next generation Playstation will be ARM based.
  - terramex 6y ago
    > Except that was a disaster because the architecture was too novel. But it had nothing to do with PowerPC instruction set. Xbox 360's CPU used PowerPC instruction set too, but Microsoft went with much more classical 3-core design instead of single core + 8 SPUs that Sony used. The only impact PowerPC had on game developers was making them aware of load-hit-store performance hit.

iridium_core 6y ago

With all of these advantages why don't the PS5 and XboxSeriesX use ARM? Do they have plans to for the next generation?

ksec 6y ago
1. They want some level of backward compatibility, and they were on x86 before. 2. Most of the Tools and Library they used are on x86. Not only from MS & Sony, but also Game developers. It is going to take some courage to change all of that. 3. When the design of PS5 and Xbox X started, none of the ARM CPU IP design, ( In fact even as of today and next year, or may be even 2022 ) has a Single Core Performance that rivals AMD's Zen 2, and certainly not Apple's M1. 4. GPU IP, both are from AMD. Which may actually be more important that the CPU IP from a gaming perspective. 5. In case you ask why not Nvidia then since they made ARM SoC like those in Nintendo. Nvidia's pricing for latest Gen IP is way out of touch. Hence that is why you only see non-leading edge tech used in Switch. ( Nvidia is not a player that wants to sacrifice Margin for Market Share, which is actually a fair point )
socialdemocrat 6y ago
Nobody is selling high performance ARM chips. Apple isn't selling their chips. ARM from others have been optimized for micro controllers, phones, servers and super computers. Not for high performance desktop system of game consoles. If you wanted a high performance alternative to x86 in the past, you would have to go with PowerPC, which Playstation famously did with Playstation 3. Except that was a disaster because the architecture was too novel. That experience made Sony, very afraid of doing anything unconventional hardware wise. But I supposed Apple may have opened the flood gates and my prediction would be that next generation Playstation will be ARM based.
- terramex 6y ago
  > Except that was a disaster because the architecture was too novel. But it had nothing to do with PowerPC instruction set. Xbox 360's CPU used PowerPC instruction set too, but Microsoft went with much more classical 3-core design instead of single core + 8 SPUs that Sony used. The only impact PowerPC had on game developers was making them aware of load-hit-store performance hit.