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Law bars ISPs from charging rental fees for a modem you own

38 points by alexrustic 6y ago

c22 6y ago
You'd think a law like this wouldn't be necessary, but I've had to call Century Link to get a credit for erroneous rental fees at least five times. I have never rented a modem. At one point they were charging me for two modem rentals!
- random5634 6y ago
  Comcast same thing. I kept on saying, what is the serial number of the modem you are renting me - because I bought the one that is plugged in.
- xur17 6y ago
  I distinctly remember calling my ISP a few years ago to remove my modem charge, which they promptly replaced with a "no-modem" fee that was $1 less than the modem fee.
willis936 6y ago
A step in the right direction, but we need more legislation than in this area. My current ISP won’t let me use my own modem for their fastest consumer internet option. The one they graciously provide for rent has no web interface exposed to LAN.
- eppp 6y ago
  I help run a ftth isp and we won't let you use your own modem either. I will gladly give you a passthrough port to use your own router though.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    When you say modem, do you mean ONT or do you mean a layer 3 router? The former is understandable, the latter is not.
  - willis936 6y ago
    Do you give access to a web interface? I see it as unacceptable to not give a customer a means to see what’s going on in layers 1-3 in their own network. I have given up on contacting my ISP to tell them they have an issue on their end. I get the same “no issue here, it must be the ethernet cable between your modem and router”. It isn’t. They took away the one tool I had to prove that it is an issue with their service. They could deny me service 50% of the time and I’d have to do what? Lawyer up?
    - bcrl 6y ago
      I run a fibre ISP as well, and you're completely wrong. There are no settings for you to play with on an ONU. It gets fully configured remotely. A fibre ONU is not remotely in the same class as DSL or cable modem - there is no complex signal processing going on, and there are no wires for you to fiddle with. More importantly, virtually nobody has the required tools to work on fibre. You'll probably just break it.
      - willis936 6y ago
        >You'll probably just break it Via web interface? I’m not saying configuration should be exposed. I’m saying basic diagnostics that do not rely a T1 support’s honor should be available. Every modem I’ve ever seen has its permissions locked down just fine.
        bcrl 6y ago
        There are no diagnostics you can perform from the web interface. You can't tell how the VLANs are configured on the other side of the network. There is nothing of value on the web interface. The only times I have looked at the web interface was during initial evaluation of the platform -- everything that matters is on the OLT and is not accessible from the ONU. By break it, I mean that people who poke around at the ONU are likely to break something on the fibre side while satisfying their curiosity. Every time you pull the connector out you run the risk of getting dirt on the fibre, and if you're $joerandomenduser you're probably not going to clean it. Or you won't push the connector all the way in, or... there are more ways for you to break things than fix them when you don't know what you're doing. Please don't touch the fibre, as I don't want to have to charge you for a $200+ truck roll caused by your cluelessness. And yes, a truck roll really does cost more than $200 when all the travel time, fuel, tools and equipment costs are accounted for.
  - bb88 6y ago
    Cable cards have a debug interface to allow the user to query the state of the cable card. Accessing that interface doesn't allow you to change the encryption methods on the cablecard. ISP gear has often been terrible, notably in situations of bufferbloat. If you don't want to fix your crappy gear, at least give the users an interface to diagnose the problem and possibly fix it on their end. And yes, certain things like bufferbloat can be fixed at the user's end.
sneak 6y ago
This was already illegal. The problem is that prosecutors don't generally go after individuals committing large scale fraud if they are working at large, established companies, and especially utilities. Unequal application and enforcement of the law can't and won't be solved by more laws.
teeray 6y ago
Cool, now do cable boxes
annoyingnoob 6y ago
To avoid the monthly fee I had to purchase the ISP router, which I never actually received. No refund for me, still got screwed on this one. Happy with my own router though.
swozey 6y ago
Good. Spectrum lost one of my return modems and ruined my credit for 7 years when I already owned a modem. Such a joke. Never even used the thing.

38 points by alexrustic 6y ago

c22 6y ago

You'd think a law like this wouldn't be necessary, but I've had to call Century Link to get a credit for erroneous rental fees at least five times. I have never rented a modem. At one point they were charging me for two modem rentals!

random5634 6y ago
Comcast same thing. I kept on saying, what is the serial number of the modem you are renting me - because I bought the one that is plugged in.
xur17 6y ago
I distinctly remember calling my ISP a few years ago to remove my modem charge, which they promptly replaced with a "no-modem" fee that was $1 less than the modem fee.

willis936 6y ago

A step in the right direction, but we need more legislation than in this area. My current ISP won’t let me use my own modem for their fastest consumer internet option. The one they graciously provide for rent has no web interface exposed to LAN.

eppp 6y ago
I help run a ftth isp and we won't let you use your own modem either. I will gladly give you a passthrough port to use your own router though.
- xxpor 6y ago
  When you say modem, do you mean ONT or do you mean a layer 3 router? The former is understandable, the latter is not.
- willis936 6y ago
  Do you give access to a web interface? I see it as unacceptable to not give a customer a means to see what’s going on in layers 1-3 in their own network. I have given up on contacting my ISP to tell them they have an issue on their end. I get the same “no issue here, it must be the ethernet cable between your modem and router”. It isn’t. They took away the one tool I had to prove that it is an issue with their service. They could deny me service 50% of the time and I’d have to do what? Lawyer up?
  - bcrl 6y ago
    I run a fibre ISP as well, and you're completely wrong. There are no settings for you to play with on an ONU. It gets fully configured remotely. A fibre ONU is not remotely in the same class as DSL or cable modem - there is no complex signal processing going on, and there are no wires for you to fiddle with. More importantly, virtually nobody has the required tools to work on fibre. You'll probably just break it.
    - willis936 6y ago
      >You'll probably just break it Via web interface? I’m not saying configuration should be exposed. I’m saying basic diagnostics that do not rely a T1 support’s honor should be available. Every modem I’ve ever seen has its permissions locked down just fine.
      - bcrl 6y ago
        There are no diagnostics you can perform from the web interface. You can't tell how the VLANs are configured on the other side of the network. There is nothing of value on the web interface. The only times I have looked at the web interface was during initial evaluation of the platform -- everything that matters is on the OLT and is not accessible from the ONU. By break it, I mean that people who poke around at the ONU are likely to break something on the fibre side while satisfying their curiosity. Every time you pull the connector out you run the risk of getting dirt on the fibre, and if you're $joerandomenduser you're probably not going to clean it. Or you won't push the connector all the way in, or... there are more ways for you to break things than fix them when you don't know what you're doing. Please don't touch the fibre, as I don't want to have to charge you for a $200+ truck roll caused by your cluelessness. And yes, a truck roll really does cost more than $200 when all the travel time, fuel, tools and equipment costs are accounted for.
- bb88 6y ago
  Cable cards have a debug interface to allow the user to query the state of the cable card. Accessing that interface doesn't allow you to change the encryption methods on the cablecard. ISP gear has often been terrible, notably in situations of bufferbloat. If you don't want to fix your crappy gear, at least give the users an interface to diagnose the problem and possibly fix it on their end. And yes, certain things like bufferbloat can be fixed at the user's end.

sneak 6y ago

This was already illegal. The problem is that prosecutors don't generally go after individuals committing large scale fraud if they are working at large, established companies, and especially utilities. Unequal application and enforcement of the law can't and won't be solved by more laws.

teeray 6y ago

Cool, now do cable boxes

annoyingnoob 6y ago

To avoid the monthly fee I had to purchase the ISP router, which I never actually received. No refund for me, still got screwed on this one. Happy with my own router though.

swozey 6y ago

Good. Spectrum lost one of my return modems and ruined my credit for 7 years when I already owned a modem. Such a joke. Never even used the thing.