3 ms·

> they can claim the highest standards of journalism Just keep these failures in mind any time in the future NYT is quoted. They don’t deserve

muglug 6y ago
One reporter's mistakes don't invalidate a whole newsroom. 99.9% of the time the NYT's scoops are subsequently verified by other news organisations in short order.
- ardit33 6y ago
  They have been doing this over and over a lot about tech reporting. Borderline malicious reporting by omitting key details to paint whatever narrative they want. Why? They see tech as a direct competitor and want as much smearing as they can. So, it is not a isolated incident.
  - muglug 6y ago
    > Why? They see tech as a direct competitor and want as much smearing as they can. That's absolute nonsense. How in the world does the NY Times compete directly with Facebook, Google, Spotify etc? There's a bit of indirect competition (ad revenue, podcast viewership) but nothing direct.
- tehjoker 6y ago
  99.9% of domestic stories that are easier to verify. NYT has plenty of wiggle room abroad, especially when the domestic audience can't understand the language of the region covered.
- sampo 6y ago
  Here's a recent example that NYT ended up getting pretty wrong: Finland, ‘Prepper Nation of the Nordics,’ Isn’t Worried About Masks https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-finland-masks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-... When we (Finland) actually opened the famed stockpiles, we found we had protective gear for about next 3 weeks. The cited chief executive of Finland’s National Emergency Supply Agency, Mr. Lounema ended up promptly resigning, and the whole case was a big scandal in Finnish news for several weeks: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/stockpile_boss_resigns_after_failed_mask_procurements/11302759 https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/stockpile_boss_resigns_af... https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000006469197.html https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000006469197.html https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11302248 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11302248 https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotimaa/mielipide-kotimaa/valtion-hankintafiaskojen-taustalla-on-osaamisen-puute-julkisia-hankintoja-koskeva-koulutus-on-viela-alkutekijoissaan/ https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotimaa/mielipide-kotimaa/v...
  - justin66 6y ago
    It's not the sort of article for which you'd typically issue a retraction, since there are no incorrect figures cited and they are honest about the limits of their reporting: There is little publicly available information on the number of masks and other supplies that Finland has or where exactly they are stored. I'm not sure they are even wrong to have used that rosy, positive tone about Finland's PPE stockpile. Compared to the United States, Finland seem to have had things relatively under control in terms of supplies? I mean, compared to the United States, Finland seems to have done pretty well since somebody who screwed up actually lost their job. Consider the difference in point of view: our federal government were screwing up constantly with PPE supplies and nobody ever resigned. All a topic for a different story, I guess.
    - sampo 6y ago
      Crisis is coming. Will country X have it in control? Let's ask some top politicians and government agency directors, do you think you'll have it in control? Of course they are going to answer yes. Let's run a big story: "Country X has crisis in control". What is the value of news like this? What if in March, a Finnish news agency had interviewed US president Trump's office and maybe US CDC Director Dr. Redfield, asked them if US has the pandemic situation in control, and after they replied yes, then ran a story "US has pandemic in control"? Would you say that's ok – after all they'd be honest about the limits of their reporting, and are just citing their sources.
      - justin66 6y ago
        I'm not sure we have a big disagreement. These sorts of stories are stupid, but in my view, they're just not worthy of retraction because they don't break the rules or tell outright falsehoods. At least not when they're standalone stories. On the other hand, if the NYT ran a large number of stories like this, not blatantly untrue but offering too rosy a picture of the preparedness of the Finnish government as part of a big campaign to alter public opinion, that would be more of an attempt at deception, and more of a problem. I'm not sure why they'd do that, but we could point at analogous series of stories they've done over the last 30 years. (An awful lot of the NYT's behavior in the early 2000s was fairly awful, even when it was superficially within journalistic standards.) > What if in March, a Finnish news agency had interviewed US president Trump's office and maybe US CDC Director Dr. Redfield, asked them if US has the pandemic situation in control, and after they replied yes, then ran a story "US has pandemic in control"? Would you say that's ok – after all they'd be honest about the limits of their reporting, and are just citing their sources. Some of it is about trusting the reader. I would be disappointed in a Finnish reporter who left the US government's employee's rosy assessment unchallenged in the absence of evidence, and in a Finnish editor who decided to run the story, but in 2020, I'd be disappointed in the reader who took such claims by the US Government seriously without evidence.
- franklampard 6y ago
  I can’t claim any number so I don’t. I would love to see how you came up with that number, can you share source? It is very different from my experience

muglug 6y ago

One reporter's mistakes don't invalidate a whole newsroom. 99.9% of the time the NYT's scoops are subsequently verified by other news organisations in short order.

ardit33 6y ago
They have been doing this over and over a lot about tech reporting. Borderline malicious reporting by omitting key details to paint whatever narrative they want. Why? They see tech as a direct competitor and want as much smearing as they can. So, it is not a isolated incident.
- muglug 6y ago
  > Why? They see tech as a direct competitor and want as much smearing as they can. That's absolute nonsense. How in the world does the NY Times compete directly with Facebook, Google, Spotify etc? There's a bit of indirect competition (ad revenue, podcast viewership) but nothing direct.
tehjoker 6y ago
99.9% of domestic stories that are easier to verify. NYT has plenty of wiggle room abroad, especially when the domestic audience can't understand the language of the region covered.
sampo 6y ago
Here's a recent example that NYT ended up getting pretty wrong: Finland, ‘Prepper Nation of the Nordics,’ Isn’t Worried About Masks https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-finland-masks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-... When we (Finland) actually opened the famed stockpiles, we found we had protective gear for about next 3 weeks. The cited chief executive of Finland’s National Emergency Supply Agency, Mr. Lounema ended up promptly resigning, and the whole case was a big scandal in Finnish news for several weeks: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/stockpile_boss_resigns_after_failed_mask_procurements/11302759 https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/stockpile_boss_resigns_af... https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000006469197.html https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000006469197.html https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11302248 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11302248 https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotimaa/mielipide-kotimaa/valtion-hankintafiaskojen-taustalla-on-osaamisen-puute-julkisia-hankintoja-koskeva-koulutus-on-viela-alkutekijoissaan/ https://suomenkuvalehti.fi/jutut/kotimaa/mielipide-kotimaa/v...
- justin66 6y ago
  It's not the sort of article for which you'd typically issue a retraction, since there are no incorrect figures cited and they are honest about the limits of their reporting: There is little publicly available information on the number of masks and other supplies that Finland has or where exactly they are stored. I'm not sure they are even wrong to have used that rosy, positive tone about Finland's PPE stockpile. Compared to the United States, Finland seem to have had things relatively under control in terms of supplies? I mean, compared to the United States, Finland seems to have done pretty well since somebody who screwed up actually lost their job. Consider the difference in point of view: our federal government were screwing up constantly with PPE supplies and nobody ever resigned. All a topic for a different story, I guess.
  - sampo 6y ago
    Crisis is coming. Will country X have it in control? Let's ask some top politicians and government agency directors, do you think you'll have it in control? Of course they are going to answer yes. Let's run a big story: "Country X has crisis in control". What is the value of news like this? What if in March, a Finnish news agency had interviewed US president Trump's office and maybe US CDC Director Dr. Redfield, asked them if US has the pandemic situation in control, and after they replied yes, then ran a story "US has pandemic in control"? Would you say that's ok – after all they'd be honest about the limits of their reporting, and are just citing their sources.
    - justin66 6y ago
      I'm not sure we have a big disagreement. These sorts of stories are stupid, but in my view, they're just not worthy of retraction because they don't break the rules or tell outright falsehoods. At least not when they're standalone stories. On the other hand, if the NYT ran a large number of stories like this, not blatantly untrue but offering too rosy a picture of the preparedness of the Finnish government as part of a big campaign to alter public opinion, that would be more of an attempt at deception, and more of a problem. I'm not sure why they'd do that, but we could point at analogous series of stories they've done over the last 30 years. (An awful lot of the NYT's behavior in the early 2000s was fairly awful, even when it was superficially within journalistic standards.) > What if in March, a Finnish news agency had interviewed US president Trump's office and maybe US CDC Director Dr. Redfield, asked them if US has the pandemic situation in control, and after they replied yes, then ran a story "US has pandemic in control"? Would you say that's ok – after all they'd be honest about the limits of their reporting, and are just citing their sources. Some of it is about trusting the reader. I would be disappointed in a Finnish reporter who left the US government's employee's rosy assessment unchallenged in the absence of evidence, and in a Finnish editor who decided to run the story, but in 2020, I'd be disappointed in the reader who took such claims by the US Government seriously without evidence.
franklampard 6y ago
I can’t claim any number so I don’t. I would love to see how you came up with that number, can you share source? It is very different from my experience