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It is so fascinating how some cultures are just ready for different environments on this planet. Authoritative collectivist monocultures are doing great with t

It is so fascinating how some cultures are just ready for different environments on this planet. Authoritative collectivist monocultures are doing great with this pandemic, and that is practically the only combination that has a grip on things.

pjc50 6y ago
Australia?
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Also New Zealand? Our (UK) response has been a bit of a clusterfuck so far, we're not a good example to judge by.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Indeed. We could have chosen to be an island, but that would have meant quarantining business travel.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      The comedy of errors around the government has probably been worse though. Barnard Castle alone probably killed thousands, the way this government is doing contracts is probably criminal, we fucked up the T&T for months etc. etc. etc. etc.
      - ljm 6y ago
        A comedy of errors assumes some level of ignorance or carelessness, but we have 10 years (and counting) of empirical evidence that this government is acting out of nothing but self-preservation and malice. Voting Mr Bean into office would constitute a comedy of errors; but what we have now (when you also throw Brexit into the mix) is far from funny.
    - makomk 6y ago
      It'd also have meant severing food supply chains (and probably also medical supply chains and a bunch of others). The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. Ending that would make Brexit look like a walk in the park by comparison. Also, you've got to remember that the time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective was one where the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse, something Trump would do, and when Italy still incorrectly believed they had zero cases.
      - pjc50 6y ago
        Only if you assume the worst implementation without thinking of the necessary exemptions. Obviously don't cut off the food supply chain. > time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective .. lies roughly from Feburary to the present day. No reason to allow travel from countries with significant prevalence. > all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse [citation needed]
        mafribe 6y ago
        [citation needed] How about this: https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/ https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/? Choice quote: Given open borders within Europe, a single country alone cannot keep the number of COVID-19 cases low Let's reverse the burden of evidence, and request [citation needed] for your implicit claim that the open borders lobby is not relevant here?
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        It wouldn't have been that hard to implement quarantine for truck drivers (cleaning cabs and switching drivers at the crossing, etc). Not trivial. But not that hard either. There would be no need to shut down the supply chains. > the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, I'd argue that these were very much the wrong-thinking people. And that the WHO advice has been pretty terrible throughout. It seems obvious to me that closing borders is appropriate in a pandemic. The UK still hasn't done this. Lots of people were going abroad on holiday between lockdowns.
- lend000 6y ago
  And islands. Australia may be a continent, but its low population density and lack of roads connecting it to more populous regions is certainly a contributing factor. All of the countries doing best are either authoritarian or effectively political islands (Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, China).
  - mprovost 6y ago
    Great Britain is an island...
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      It is probably the most connected not-tiny island. (One of the world's biggest airports, several of Europe's busiest, frequent direct rail connection to the continent, frequent ferries on many routes, fully integrated free trade + work zone.) "According to Getlink, the company which operates the Channel Tunnel, 1.64 million trucks traveled between the UK and the EU using the crossing last year. More than 2.5 million cars made the crossing, as did 51,229 buses and 2,012 freight trains. Added to the even greater volumes of truck crossings made on ferries — the Port of Dover handled a record 2.6 million trucks in 2017, according to its own figures — it accounts for a massive annual volume."
      - lend000 6y ago
        Not to mention it has double the population of Australia and 80x the population density.
      - JimTheMan 6y ago
        The UK could have closed all these borders down. They just chose not too.
        tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        The UK could not close those borders down, we would starve.
leg100 6y ago
"Authoritative collectivist monocultures"...That sounds like you're insulting them three times over :) You could call them sensible, mature, selfless societies. Either way one cuts it, the UK is neither.
- vmception 6y ago
  That requires a lot of assumptions Authoritative: I don't consider less-inclusive political systems worse. They have best, average and worse cases, where the problem is that they get worst case many times over. A benevolent dictatorship is capable of getting the best case results, the predictable threat is that their replacement will not be capable of stewarding resources the same way. Whereas more inclusive political systems get average case results more reliably and it is practically impossible to get a best case result with a lot of energy continually necessary to avoid worst case results. Collectivist: I don't consider collectivist to be a pejorative term and don't know of any context where it is. You picked a synonym, selfless. Monoculture: Just a fact of life. Where monocultures help them be able to predict what their neighbor does and trust that result, then large-scale immediate coordination without the state is easy. It isn't impossible for a multicultural society to achieve the same benefits, its also not happening. Unlike others that might use this word, I am not making any statement on a preferred living arrangement.
  - leg100 6y ago
    > I don't consider collectivist to be a pejorative term and don't know of any context where it is. You picked a synonym, selfless. Oh I don't know, socialism scares republican voters shitless, I wouldn't be surprised if collectivism did too.
    - vmception 6y ago
      Okay. These words are not inherently insults regardless of how allergic other people are to adjectives. All good though.
      - 6y ago
newsgourmet 6y ago
"Authoritative collectivist monocultures are doing great with this pandemic" They are great at controlling the flow of information.
godmode2019 6y ago
Authoritative collectivist monocultures are also better at controlling the media and banned disagreement with the government position. All we hear is they are doing a good job so it must be true.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
odiroot 6y ago
Monoculture is not necessary. Case(s) in point: Malaysia and Singapore. Collectivist definitely help.

pjc50 6y ago

Australia?

mhh__ 6y ago
Also New Zealand? Our (UK) response has been a bit of a clusterfuck so far, we're not a good example to judge by.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Indeed. We could have chosen to be an island, but that would have meant quarantining business travel.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    The comedy of errors around the government has probably been worse though. Barnard Castle alone probably killed thousands, the way this government is doing contracts is probably criminal, we fucked up the T&T for months etc. etc. etc. etc.
    - ljm 6y ago
      A comedy of errors assumes some level of ignorance or carelessness, but we have 10 years (and counting) of empirical evidence that this government is acting out of nothing but self-preservation and malice. Voting Mr Bean into office would constitute a comedy of errors; but what we have now (when you also throw Brexit into the mix) is far from funny.
  - makomk 6y ago
    It'd also have meant severing food supply chains (and probably also medical supply chains and a bunch of others). The UK relies on trucks coming across from the continent and continuing on to destinations throughout the country with their original drivers. Ending that would make Brexit look like a walk in the park by comparison. Also, you've got to remember that the time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective was one where the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse, something Trump would do, and when Italy still incorrectly believed they had zero cases.
    - pjc50 6y ago
      Only if you assume the worst implementation without thinking of the necessary exemptions. Obviously don't cut off the food supply chain. > time period during which the UK would've had to do this for it to be effective .. lies roughly from Feburary to the present day. No reason to allow travel from countries with significant prevalence. > all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, xenophobic and made things worse [citation needed]
      - mafribe 6y ago
        [citation needed] How about this: https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/ https://www.containcovid-pan.eu/? Choice quote: Given open borders within Europe, a single country alone cannot keep the number of COVID-19 cases low Let's reverse the burden of evidence, and request [citation needed] for your implicit claim that the open borders lobby is not relevant here?
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      It wouldn't have been that hard to implement quarantine for truck drivers (cleaning cabs and switching drivers at the crossing, etc). Not trivial. But not that hard either. There would be no need to shut down the supply chains. > the WHO and all the right-thinking people were insisting that border restrictions were counterproductive, I'd argue that these were very much the wrong-thinking people. And that the WHO advice has been pretty terrible throughout. It seems obvious to me that closing borders is appropriate in a pandemic. The UK still hasn't done this. Lots of people were going abroad on holiday between lockdowns.
lend000 6y ago
And islands. Australia may be a continent, but its low population density and lack of roads connecting it to more populous regions is certainly a contributing factor. All of the countries doing best are either authoritarian or effectively political islands (Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, China).
- mprovost 6y ago
  Great Britain is an island...
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    It is probably the most connected not-tiny island. (One of the world's biggest airports, several of Europe's busiest, frequent direct rail connection to the continent, frequent ferries on many routes, fully integrated free trade + work zone.) "According to Getlink, the company which operates the Channel Tunnel, 1.64 million trucks traveled between the UK and the EU using the crossing last year. More than 2.5 million cars made the crossing, as did 51,229 buses and 2,012 freight trains. Added to the even greater volumes of truck crossings made on ferries — the Port of Dover handled a record 2.6 million trucks in 2017, according to its own figures — it accounts for a massive annual volume."
    - lend000 6y ago
      Not to mention it has double the population of Australia and 80x the population density.
    - JimTheMan 6y ago
      The UK could have closed all these borders down. They just chose not too.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        The UK could not close those borders down, we would starve.

leg100 6y ago

"Authoritative collectivist monocultures"...That sounds like you're insulting them three times over :) You could call them sensible, mature, selfless societies. Either way one cuts it, the UK is neither.

vmception 6y ago
That requires a lot of assumptions Authoritative: I don't consider less-inclusive political systems worse. They have best, average and worse cases, where the problem is that they get worst case many times over. A benevolent dictatorship is capable of getting the best case results, the predictable threat is that their replacement will not be capable of stewarding resources the same way. Whereas more inclusive political systems get average case results more reliably and it is practically impossible to get a best case result with a lot of energy continually necessary to avoid worst case results. Collectivist: I don't consider collectivist to be a pejorative term and don't know of any context where it is. You picked a synonym, selfless. Monoculture: Just a fact of life. Where monocultures help them be able to predict what their neighbor does and trust that result, then large-scale immediate coordination without the state is easy. It isn't impossible for a multicultural society to achieve the same benefits, its also not happening. Unlike others that might use this word, I am not making any statement on a preferred living arrangement.
- leg100 6y ago
  > I don't consider collectivist to be a pejorative term and don't know of any context where it is. You picked a synonym, selfless. Oh I don't know, socialism scares republican voters shitless, I wouldn't be surprised if collectivism did too.
  - vmception 6y ago
    Okay. These words are not inherently insults regardless of how allergic other people are to adjectives. All good though.
    - 6y ago

newsgourmet 6y ago

"Authoritative collectivist monocultures are doing great with this pandemic" They are great at controlling the flow of information.

godmode2019 6y ago

Authoritative collectivist monocultures are also better at controlling the media and banned disagreement with the government position. All we hear is they are doing a good job so it must be true.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

odiroot 6y ago

Monoculture is not necessary. Case(s) in point: Malaysia and Singapore. Collectivist definitely help.