5 ms·

Law student here who lacks this. Does anybody have any advice on how to begin developing this skill?

by throwaway119922 6y ago

dano 6y ago
Yes! Get a copy of the book Problem Solving, Decision Making, and Professional Judgment: A Guide for Lawyers and Policymakers [1] co-authored by Paul Brest [2] and Linda Hamilton Krieger [3]. This is an outstanding book for anyone who will be in a leadership, governance, or position where decisions matter. Good luck with your degree. 1. https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional-Judgment/dp/0195366328/ https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional... 2. https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ 3. https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda
kepler1 6y ago
Here are some tips, and I would say especially in law, where you may tend to talk in principles when in fact numbers do become important. -- 1. Take an interest in data. Be interested in the details of how statistics and numbers make things more complicated than black or white. Take a look each day at some of the more popular plots on https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ . Go to wikipedia and read about the demographic distribution of the USA, or the federal tax brackets, and how you would visualize those in data. And think about what data, numbers, information you would need to plot such things. Write down the example data you would need and think about how to plot it, or make some conclusion about it. Think about where in your cases you would bring in data (and of what kind) to support the point. -- 2. Be interested in why small differences in data can change the "takeaway" point of what you're seeing. What would it take in numbers to reach the conclusion you're reaching? How reliable are those numbers, and how do they interact that some error in one would change your whole conclusion? Learning to like the detail behind a "principle" is important. When Justice xyz questioned the petitioner on the distance radius of doctors who were able to be affiliated with an abortion-performing hospital and the effect on the number of women with access to medical procedures, why did that matter? -- 3. Don't be satisfied with the summary numbers that someone tells you. Learn to ask the next level question about the numbers and think about what it means. When some article or person on the news says, "xyz went up by 30%", ask for more -- what number did it go from to? When was it measured, and by what metric? What was the error? If it went from 3 to 4, well, is that meaningful to say it went up by 30%? When they say a vaccine has 90% efficacy, what does that mean? What numbers are they looking at to say such a thing? What number would you look at? You will know you've reached a level of quantitative thinking when you can call bullshit on other people's claimed statistics, or ask "did they really measure that in a meaningful way?". If you don't take an interest in numbers and how people present them, and what they mean, you can just be led around by other people who are in control of them. It will be in your interest and increase your future success against adversaries to feel comfortable with numbers.
ssivark 6y ago
I highly recommend both books by Sanjoy Mahajan (who has a background in theoretical physics), especially “Street-Fighting Mathematics: The Art of Educated Guessing and Opportunistic Problem Solving”. http://www.sanjoymahajan.com/works.htm http://www.sanjoymahajan.com/works.htm
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
Don't take a footballer's advice as gospel. (He may be a smart footballer, or even a smart person. But even those are sometime wrong). Lacking emotional skills is, when profound, a disease called Autism. Which makes a lot of things really hard. I don't believe there to be anything comparable for lacking quantitative skills while being of normal intelligence otherwise. There's a thing called dyscalculia, I believe. Have you ever heard of it? Have you heard of dyslexia? Is the latter one more widespread, or is it more profound? The answer doesn't actually matter for the conclusion not to worry too much about the phenomenon. The best advice is to be excellent at what you're good at, while trying to foster high regard for other disciplines, an to find people and involve them where appropriate, and to try to track how useful their advice is and, if it is, to seriously consider it. Incidentally, all those are emotional skills and, in my experience, lawyers are far better at respecting statistics or math than STEM graduates are at not sneering at any intellectual endeavour that doesn't glorify Richard Feynman. (who, by the way, was the rare exemption. And not only because it would have been awkward for him to sneer at any discipline that doesn't glorify him)
- techbio 6y ago
  Might look to "Innumeracy" by John Allen Paulos. Though written a fairly long time ago, the subject fares better over time than many more qualitative ones.
- bo1024 6y ago
  I think your opening paragraph is disrespectful and dismissive. He's a well-published professional mathematician. Why wouldn't someone take his advice just because he used to play football? Also, this article wasn't about him giving advice, so...
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
    Yes, indeed, I didn't see that specifically, although I figured as much from the domain and the book, which is why included "smart person", which was not intended to be ironic. But it can be misunderstood, and I apologise for any offence I caused. I was thinking of the following argument and cut it far too short: "Don't believe a mathematician that quantitative skills are the most important, don't believe a psychologist that interpersonal skills are most important, and don't believe a programmer that python is more important than English".
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
Practice it with things you care about. Resist the temptation to look up formulas. Trying to figure out your retirement? Get out a pen and paper (and excel or something to compute with). Curious about what that headline about income inequality or infection disparities? Google the relevant stats. Those are all quantitative things you’re probably already interested in. So nurture it by trying to answer your own questions about it (which are quantitative questions). Those questions will lead to other ones that you might not know how to work with, so look that stuff up. The only thing to avoid is looking up formulas to plug in. Instead in trying to learn what formula to use, look up how to derive that formula. Deriving your own formulas is a skill you can develop that will change how you think, while collecting formulas to plug things into might be useful but won’t grow you new angles and frames of mind. Most of all, just practice turning intuitive things into their mathematically precise equivalents, a level of precision and unambiguity you’re probably already nurturing as a law student.

Law student here who lacks this. Does anybody have any advice on how to begin developing this skill?

dano 6y ago

Yes! Get a copy of the book Problem Solving, Decision Making, and Professional Judgment: A Guide for Lawyers and Policymakers [1] co-authored by Paul Brest [2] and Linda Hamilton Krieger [3]. This is an outstanding book for anyone who will be in a leadership, governance, or position where decisions matter. Good luck with your degree. 1. https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional-Judgment/dp/0195366328/ https://www.amazon.com/Problem-Solving-Decision-Professional... 2. https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ https://law.stanford.edu/directory/paul-brest/ 3. https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda https://www.law.hawaii.edu/personnel/krieger/linda

kepler1 6y ago

Here are some tips, and I would say especially in law, where you may tend to talk in principles when in fact numbers do become important. -- 1. Take an interest in data. Be interested in the details of how statistics and numbers make things more complicated than black or white. Take a look each day at some of the more popular plots on https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/ . Go to wikipedia and read about the demographic distribution of the USA, or the federal tax brackets, and how you would visualize those in data. And think about what data, numbers, information you would need to plot such things. Write down the example data you would need and think about how to plot it, or make some conclusion about it. Think about where in your cases you would bring in data (and of what kind) to support the point. -- 2. Be interested in why small differences in data can change the "takeaway" point of what you're seeing. What would it take in numbers to reach the conclusion you're reaching? How reliable are those numbers, and how do they interact that some error in one would change your whole conclusion? Learning to like the detail behind a "principle" is important. When Justice xyz questioned the petitioner on the distance radius of doctors who were able to be affiliated with an abortion-performing hospital and the effect on the number of women with access to medical procedures, why did that matter? -- 3. Don't be satisfied with the summary numbers that someone tells you. Learn to ask the next level question about the numbers and think about what it means. When some article or person on the news says, "xyz went up by 30%", ask for more -- what number did it go from to? When was it measured, and by what metric? What was the error? If it went from 3 to 4, well, is that meaningful to say it went up by 30%? When they say a vaccine has 90% efficacy, what does that mean? What numbers are they looking at to say such a thing? What number would you look at? You will know you've reached a level of quantitative thinking when you can call bullshit on other people's claimed statistics, or ask "did they really measure that in a meaningful way?". If you don't take an interest in numbers and how people present them, and what they mean, you can just be led around by other people who are in control of them. It will be in your interest and increase your future success against adversaries to feel comfortable with numbers.

ssivark 6y ago

I highly recommend both books by Sanjoy Mahajan (who has a background in theoretical physics), especially “Street-Fighting Mathematics: The Art of Educated Guessing and Opportunistic Problem Solving”. http://www.sanjoymahajan.com/works.htm http://www.sanjoymahajan.com/works.htm

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago

Don't take a footballer's advice as gospel. (He may be a smart footballer, or even a smart person. But even those are sometime wrong). Lacking emotional skills is, when profound, a disease called Autism. Which makes a lot of things really hard. I don't believe there to be anything comparable for lacking quantitative skills while being of normal intelligence otherwise. There's a thing called dyscalculia, I believe. Have you ever heard of it? Have you heard of dyslexia? Is the latter one more widespread, or is it more profound? The answer doesn't actually matter for the conclusion not to worry too much about the phenomenon. The best advice is to be excellent at what you're good at, while trying to foster high regard for other disciplines, an to find people and involve them where appropriate, and to try to track how useful their advice is and, if it is, to seriously consider it. Incidentally, all those are emotional skills and, in my experience, lawyers are far better at respecting statistics or math than STEM graduates are at not sneering at any intellectual endeavour that doesn't glorify Richard Feynman. (who, by the way, was the rare exemption. And not only because it would have been awkward for him to sneer at any discipline that doesn't glorify him)

techbio 6y ago
Might look to "Innumeracy" by John Allen Paulos. Though written a fairly long time ago, the subject fares better over time than many more qualitative ones.
bo1024 6y ago
I think your opening paragraph is disrespectful and dismissive. He's a well-published professional mathematician. Why wouldn't someone take his advice just because he used to play football? Also, this article wasn't about him giving advice, so...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  Yes, indeed, I didn't see that specifically, although I figured as much from the domain and the book, which is why included "smart person", which was not intended to be ironic. But it can be misunderstood, and I apologise for any offence I caused. I was thinking of the following argument and cut it far too short: "Don't believe a mathematician that quantitative skills are the most important, don't believe a psychologist that interpersonal skills are most important, and don't believe a programmer that python is more important than English".

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

Practice it with things you care about. Resist the temptation to look up formulas. Trying to figure out your retirement? Get out a pen and paper (and excel or something to compute with). Curious about what that headline about income inequality or infection disparities? Google the relevant stats. Those are all quantitative things you’re probably already interested in. So nurture it by trying to answer your own questions about it (which are quantitative questions). Those questions will lead to other ones that you might not know how to work with, so look that stuff up. The only thing to avoid is looking up formulas to plug in. Instead in trying to learn what formula to use, look up how to derive that formula. Deriving your own formulas is a skill you can develop that will change how you think, while collecting formulas to plug things into might be useful but won’t grow you new angles and frames of mind. Most of all, just practice turning intuitive things into their mathematically precise equivalents, a level of precision and unambiguity you’re probably already nurturing as a law student.