6 ms·

I disagree but I still respect your choice, at very least you acknowledge that in the end lockdown or not lockdown is subjective preference.

by matz1 6y ago

lostlogin 6y ago
Can you explain your preference for no-lockdown? NZ is covid free, the economy is rebounding fast and we have had very few deaths and (relative to others) short lockdowns. Unemployment is considerably less than expected. Christmas is shaping up to be normal. The results in NZ are only subjective if you pull some elaborate contortions, NZ has done well.
- matz1 6y ago
  Few months lockdown is not short at all. Even then they still not allowing international visitor. My preference is simply based on cost/benefit analysis. I'm not opposed of covid free at all, as long as whatever method you choose doesn't cause problem that outweight the risk. Here is some example that is not a lockdown: Increasing health care capacity Developing better treatment Use more accurate test Sweeden, florida has done very well too without lockdown. Although there is still possibility that their politician succumb to pressure and enact lockdown in the future. Downside of lockdown: unemployment, bankruptcy, mental health issue, delayed treatment of other illness, kids can't attend in person school, etc. You can say that all of these is not big deal. I still respect you while I disagree with you, after all its subjective preference. >elaborate contortions Please don't use these words just because we have different value.
  - tialaramex 6y ago
    You give Florida as an example. If we scaled up New Zealand's population to Florida's their total COVID-19 fatalities would be about 100. But Florida's policy approach has killed over 20 thousand people already, and shows no sign of stopping. You list as a downside of New Zealand's approach unemployment. Scaled up, New Zealand would have about 600k unemployed people. But Florida actually has 650k. So that seems like instead of avoid unemployment, an economy devastated by pandemic but unwilling to lockdown has shrunk anyway. So so far your cost is twenty thousand extra friends and relatives dead, and your "benefit" is fifty thousand extra unemployed. Did you actually perform a cost/benefit analysis? I don't think you did.
    - matz1 6y ago
      >But Florida's policy approach has killed over 20 thousand people already, and shows no sign of stopping. Keep in mind that the 20000 death number is highly inflated because it include death with covid not just due to covid. People who happen to be covid positive during the death is included in the number. Most importantly with the current death number, i didn't say florida government handling it perfectly but I much much rather to live in this place if I have choice. If you think its a horrible way to live then only thing i can say: to each their own. >and shows no sign of stopping as more and more the virus spread, more people develop natural immunity as times go the treatment method improve and then there is vaccine coming >But Florida actually has 650k. Keep in mind that unemployment number is not all solely caused by lockdown But for sure some unemployment is caused by lockdown due to simple logic: if you don't allow business to open due to lockdown, the worker wouldn't have job. My simple cost-benefit analysis: The risk/cost of covid : less than 1% death rate and mostly skewed to older population The lockdown risk/cost: Some unemployment, some bankruptcy, some mental health issue, some delayed treatment of other illness, kids can't attend in person school, etc At least for me The lockdown risk/cost is much more than the risk/cost of covid >So so far your cost is twenty thousand extra friends and relatives dead, and your "benefit" is fifty thousand extra unemployed. More accurate example would be: 1 people I know dead due to covid, benefit : life continue as normal for the rest of people. Pretty damn worth it to me.
      - tialaramex 6y ago
        > Keep in mind that the 20000 death number is highly inflated because it include death with covid not just due to covid. Although 20 thousand people's cause of death is listed as COVID-19, about 27 thousand excess deaths occurred already in Florida, and that'll probably be closer to 30 thousand by New Year. So, rather than 20 thousand being "highly inflated" as you propose it's likely a considerable undercount. > But for sure some unemployment is caused by lockdown due to simple logic: if you don't allow business to open due to lockdown, the worker wouldn't have job. Unemployment is being caused largely by the economic slowdown, and by significantly reduced footfall, driven by inability to control a pandemic. Of course in New Zealand that's largely restricted to just one sector: International tourism, whereas in Florida their whole economy is constantly being kicked in the head by the policies you admire and will be for months to come.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
nullsense 6y ago
At the of the day how it is received is down to the individual. Our family is healthy and we've all kept our jobs and none of us are suffering any form of hardship. Lockdown was temporary. Some people have lost businesses, jobs or careers and they're going to be less happy about that. From my day to day perspective my life is very normal. I remember the level of background anxiety grew rapidly the more it spread into the community in the initial outbreak. The second and third waves around the world look increasingly terrifying. I'm calm. Im at peace. That suits me perfectly.

I disagree but I still respect your choice, at very least you acknowledge that in the end lockdown or not lockdown is subjective preference.

by matz1 6y ago

I disagree but I still respect your choice, at very least you acknowledge that in the end lockdown or not lockdown is subjective preference.

lostlogin 6y ago

Can you explain your preference for no-lockdown? NZ is covid free, the economy is rebounding fast and we have had very few deaths and (relative to others) short lockdowns. Unemployment is considerably less than expected. Christmas is shaping up to be normal. The results in NZ are only subjective if you pull some elaborate contortions, NZ has done well.

matz1 6y ago
Few months lockdown is not short at all. Even then they still not allowing international visitor. My preference is simply based on cost/benefit analysis. I'm not opposed of covid free at all, as long as whatever method you choose doesn't cause problem that outweight the risk. Here is some example that is not a lockdown: Increasing health care capacity Developing better treatment Use more accurate test Sweeden, florida has done very well too without lockdown. Although there is still possibility that their politician succumb to pressure and enact lockdown in the future. Downside of lockdown: unemployment, bankruptcy, mental health issue, delayed treatment of other illness, kids can't attend in person school, etc. You can say that all of these is not big deal. I still respect you while I disagree with you, after all its subjective preference. >elaborate contortions Please don't use these words just because we have different value.
- tialaramex 6y ago
  You give Florida as an example. If we scaled up New Zealand's population to Florida's their total COVID-19 fatalities would be about 100. But Florida's policy approach has killed over 20 thousand people already, and shows no sign of stopping. You list as a downside of New Zealand's approach unemployment. Scaled up, New Zealand would have about 600k unemployed people. But Florida actually has 650k. So that seems like instead of avoid unemployment, an economy devastated by pandemic but unwilling to lockdown has shrunk anyway. So so far your cost is twenty thousand extra friends and relatives dead, and your "benefit" is fifty thousand extra unemployed. Did you actually perform a cost/benefit analysis? I don't think you did.
  - matz1 6y ago
    >But Florida's policy approach has killed over 20 thousand people already, and shows no sign of stopping. Keep in mind that the 20000 death number is highly inflated because it include death with covid not just due to covid. People who happen to be covid positive during the death is included in the number. Most importantly with the current death number, i didn't say florida government handling it perfectly but I much much rather to live in this place if I have choice. If you think its a horrible way to live then only thing i can say: to each their own. >and shows no sign of stopping as more and more the virus spread, more people develop natural immunity as times go the treatment method improve and then there is vaccine coming >But Florida actually has 650k. Keep in mind that unemployment number is not all solely caused by lockdown But for sure some unemployment is caused by lockdown due to simple logic: if you don't allow business to open due to lockdown, the worker wouldn't have job. My simple cost-benefit analysis: The risk/cost of covid : less than 1% death rate and mostly skewed to older population The lockdown risk/cost: Some unemployment, some bankruptcy, some mental health issue, some delayed treatment of other illness, kids can't attend in person school, etc At least for me The lockdown risk/cost is much more than the risk/cost of covid >So so far your cost is twenty thousand extra friends and relatives dead, and your "benefit" is fifty thousand extra unemployed. More accurate example would be: 1 people I know dead due to covid, benefit : life continue as normal for the rest of people. Pretty damn worth it to me.
    - tialaramex 6y ago
      > Keep in mind that the 20000 death number is highly inflated because it include death with covid not just due to covid. Although 20 thousand people's cause of death is listed as COVID-19, about 27 thousand excess deaths occurred already in Florida, and that'll probably be closer to 30 thousand by New Year. So, rather than 20 thousand being "highly inflated" as you propose it's likely a considerable undercount. > But for sure some unemployment is caused by lockdown due to simple logic: if you don't allow business to open due to lockdown, the worker wouldn't have job. Unemployment is being caused largely by the economic slowdown, and by significantly reduced footfall, driven by inability to control a pandemic. Of course in New Zealand that's largely restricted to just one sector: International tourism, whereas in Florida their whole economy is constantly being kicked in the head by the policies you admire and will be for months to come.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

nullsense 6y ago

At the of the day how it is received is down to the individual. Our family is healthy and we've all kept our jobs and none of us are suffering any form of hardship. Lockdown was temporary. Some people have lost businesses, jobs or careers and they're going to be less happy about that. From my day to day perspective my life is very normal. I remember the level of background anxiety grew rapidly the more it spread into the community in the initial outbreak. The second and third waves around the world look increasingly terrifying. I'm calm. Im at peace. That suits me perfectly.