4 ms·

What does "free as in beer" mean? In what way is beer free?

by dorkwood 6y ago

samizdis 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_as_in_free_beer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_as_in_free_beer
- dorkwood 6y ago
  Sorry, but I read this whole article and still don't understand. > The English adjective free is commonly used in one of two meanings: "for free" (gratis) and "with little or no restriction" (libre). To be clear, I understand this distinction. I'm just wondering in what context or culture beer is considered free (gratis). > For example, they are used to distinguish freeware (software gratis) from free software (software libre). Richard Stallman summarised the difference in a slogan: "Think free as in free speech, not free beer." This is just repeating the phrase and doesn't answer my question. > As the English adjective free does not distinguish between "for free" and "liberty", the phrases "free as in freedom of speech" (libre, free software) and "free as in free beer" (gratis, freeware) were adopted. Many in the free software movement feel strongly about the freedom to use the software, make modifications, etc., whether or not this freely usable software is to be exchanged for money. Therefore, this distinction became important. This article seems to only explain the distinction between "libre" and "gratis", and treats the idea of beer being free as a given. Is there a particular culture where "free beer" is a common phrase? Why not say "free as in beer, not free as in lunch"?
  - Bakary 6y ago
    Free as in lunch also exists in anglo culture, with the notable example of There ain't no such thing as a free lunch (TANSTAAFL). The concept of free beer sounds natural because there are multiple contexts where you could potentially expect beer to suddenly become free for whatever reason (someone pays for a round, festivals, college dorms etc.) Free pizza would be a good substitute as well. Some consumables just have associations that aren't completely easy to explain to someone not familiar with them.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    From the Wiki article > Richard Stallman summarised the difference in a slogan: "Think free as in free speech, not free beer." Free as in lunch would also work, but I'd hazard to guess that "free beer" is more relatable for the target audience Stallman was addressing. That being - computer enthusiasts ("nerds") who skew(ed) largely male, 16 - 35 (roughly).
  - chongli 6y ago
    It’s common at western weddings and other lavish parties for beer and other drinks to be served to the guests for free. Hence, “free beer.” When people say to one another “hey, come to the party, they’ve got free beer!” It’s instantly understood that the beer is gratis, not libre.
  - _Microft 6y ago
    The german Wikipedia has an article on free beer ("Freibier") if you do not mind a foreign language source. Here is an excerpt with an example: "Eines der wahrscheinlich größten Freibierfeste ist jedes Jahr das Sommerfest der Braustudenten an der Technischen Universität München am Standort Weihenstephan in Freising. Dort werden jedes Jahr über 150 Hektoliter Freibier von über 300 Brauereien ausgeschenkt." Translation: "One of the most likely largest free beer fests in the world is the annual summer fest of brewer students at the Technical University of Munich at the location of Weihenstephan in Freising. Every year, more than 150 hectoliter [i.e. 15000 liters] of free beer from over 300 breweries is served." Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freibier https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freibier
    - 082349872349872 6y ago
      Also, Die Draufgänger's "Looking for Freibier" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc plays with both semantics.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - rightbyte 6y ago
      > 150 hectoliter It is funny. When I worked in the US people thought I tried to be funny or smart when I said "2 hecto gram" about weight or used decimeters.
  - chrisoverzero 6y ago
    It’s not as complex as you’re choosing to make it. When someone tells you, “There’s free beer at Oktoberfest,” is your first thought that the beer has no monetary cost, or that the beer is unencumbered by particular legal restrictions? Now someone tells you, “There’s free speech at Oktoberfest.” Is your first thought that there’s no monetary cost to expression, or that the expression is unencumbered by particular legal restrictions? (Happily, Oktoberfest has both.) >I'm just wondering in what context or culture beer is considered free (gratis). When beer is described as “free,” it’s understood to be gratis. When speech is described as free, it’s understood to be libre. These are used as examples for more ambiguous situations, since software can be one, the other, both, or neither. >Why not say "free as in beer, not free as in lunch"? For three reasons: 1. “Free for lunch” is a way more common phrase, and it already means “unencumbered by schedule or previous commitments.” 2. “Free lunch” is already part of a more common phrase which states that a free lunch cannot exist, ruining the effectiveness. 3. Beer and lunch are both expected to be gratis, not libre. Exceptions (http://freebeer.org/ http://freebeer.org/) have to explain themselves over that hill.
    - dorkwood 6y ago
      Right, I think I was getting hung up on the "beer" word because "free speech" is a comparatively much more common phrase. But it sounds like almost any word that doesn't imply "libre" could be used to illustrate the point. I suppose beer is as good a choice as any.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    You are overthinking it here. It is not a carefully thought out phrase, but something Stallman came up with in a speech for a particular audience once, and it stuck.
  - okennedy 6y ago
    Worth noting: beer is encumbered by legal restrictions in many parts of the world. In these places, even free beer is still not legally available to anyone under 16, 18, 21, etc...
dhimes 6y ago
At boat shows, a certain boating magazine guru will host "cruiser parties" after hours where you may attend and have beer and pay no money. To you, the beer is free.
BrianOnHN 6y ago
There's no such thing a free lunch. Ie. Time-spent Time spent chugging a beer is regained by removing your inhibition to say "this conversation is over."
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
joshbetz 6y ago
It’s a phrase used to describe free software. > “Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. We sometimes call it “libre software,” borrowing the French or Spanish word for “free” as in freedom, to show we do not mean the software is gratis. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
psyc 6y ago
It means if someone says beer is free in whatever circumstance, we can assume they mean no cost. They don’t mean the beer has liberties or is unencumbered. If anti-prohibitionists chanted “free the beer!” that would be a different story.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
reidjs 6y ago
the expression confused me when I first heard it to. I think it should change to “free as in peanuts” or “free as in stickers” or something. It’s rare that you’ll find free beer
- bronson 6y ago
  Peanuts already means something with a value so close to free that it’s not worth worrying about. “That’s just peanuts compared to space.” Might be true of stickers too. To a parent, “free as stickers” probably means something that’s likely to go right in the trash bin without being used. Naming is tough.
- bshimmin 6y ago
  This has bothered me for years! I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who didn't already understand the concept of "free software" for whom this expression was actually helpful. (Maybe RMS lives in a world where there's a lot of free beer.) A better way of explaining this is surely that the "free" in free software is about freedom rather than about its being zero cost.
ben509 6y ago
If you go to a cookout or a party, people often bring more beer than they drink, thus people who didn't bring any can get free beer. That kind of communal donation is similar to how people donate their time and effort to open source projects.
wsc981 6y ago
> What does "free as in beer" mean? In what way is beer free? I believe another (perhaps simpler) way to say this, that should be understandable by English speaking people, is "free as in gratis".

What does "free as in beer" mean? In what way is beer free?

samizdis 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_as_in_free_beer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_as_in_free_beer

dorkwood 6y ago
Sorry, but I read this whole article and still don't understand. > The English adjective free is commonly used in one of two meanings: "for free" (gratis) and "with little or no restriction" (libre). To be clear, I understand this distinction. I'm just wondering in what context or culture beer is considered free (gratis). > For example, they are used to distinguish freeware (software gratis) from free software (software libre). Richard Stallman summarised the difference in a slogan: "Think free as in free speech, not free beer." This is just repeating the phrase and doesn't answer my question. > As the English adjective free does not distinguish between "for free" and "liberty", the phrases "free as in freedom of speech" (libre, free software) and "free as in free beer" (gratis, freeware) were adopted. Many in the free software movement feel strongly about the freedom to use the software, make modifications, etc., whether or not this freely usable software is to be exchanged for money. Therefore, this distinction became important. This article seems to only explain the distinction between "libre" and "gratis", and treats the idea of beer being free as a given. Is there a particular culture where "free beer" is a common phrase? Why not say "free as in beer, not free as in lunch"?
- Bakary 6y ago
  Free as in lunch also exists in anglo culture, with the notable example of There ain't no such thing as a free lunch (TANSTAAFL). The concept of free beer sounds natural because there are multiple contexts where you could potentially expect beer to suddenly become free for whatever reason (someone pays for a round, festivals, college dorms etc.) Free pizza would be a good substitute as well. Some consumables just have associations that aren't completely easy to explain to someone not familiar with them.
- mthoms 6y ago
  From the Wiki article > Richard Stallman summarised the difference in a slogan: "Think free as in free speech, not free beer." Free as in lunch would also work, but I'd hazard to guess that "free beer" is more relatable for the target audience Stallman was addressing. That being - computer enthusiasts ("nerds") who skew(ed) largely male, 16 - 35 (roughly).
- chongli 6y ago
  It’s common at western weddings and other lavish parties for beer and other drinks to be served to the guests for free. Hence, “free beer.” When people say to one another “hey, come to the party, they’ve got free beer!” It’s instantly understood that the beer is gratis, not libre.
- _Microft 6y ago
  The german Wikipedia has an article on free beer ("Freibier") if you do not mind a foreign language source. Here is an excerpt with an example: "Eines der wahrscheinlich größten Freibierfeste ist jedes Jahr das Sommerfest der Braustudenten an der Technischen Universität München am Standort Weihenstephan in Freising. Dort werden jedes Jahr über 150 Hektoliter Freibier von über 300 Brauereien ausgeschenkt." Translation: "One of the most likely largest free beer fests in the world is the annual summer fest of brewer students at the Technical University of Munich at the location of Weihenstephan in Freising. Every year, more than 150 hectoliter [i.e. 15000 liters] of free beer from over 300 breweries is served." Source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freibier https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freibier
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Also, Die Draufgänger's "Looking for Freibier" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc plays with both semantics.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    > 150 hectoliter It is funny. When I worked in the US people thought I tried to be funny or smart when I said "2 hecto gram" about weight or used decimeters.
- chrisoverzero 6y ago
  It’s not as complex as you’re choosing to make it. When someone tells you, “There’s free beer at Oktoberfest,” is your first thought that the beer has no monetary cost, or that the beer is unencumbered by particular legal restrictions? Now someone tells you, “There’s free speech at Oktoberfest.” Is your first thought that there’s no monetary cost to expression, or that the expression is unencumbered by particular legal restrictions? (Happily, Oktoberfest has both.) >I'm just wondering in what context or culture beer is considered free (gratis). When beer is described as “free,” it’s understood to be gratis. When speech is described as free, it’s understood to be libre. These are used as examples for more ambiguous situations, since software can be one, the other, both, or neither. >Why not say "free as in beer, not free as in lunch"? For three reasons: 1. “Free for lunch” is a way more common phrase, and it already means “unencumbered by schedule or previous commitments.” 2. “Free lunch” is already part of a more common phrase which states that a free lunch cannot exist, ruining the effectiveness. 3. Beer and lunch are both expected to be gratis, not libre. Exceptions (http://freebeer.org/ http://freebeer.org/) have to explain themselves over that hill.
  - dorkwood 6y ago
    Right, I think I was getting hung up on the "beer" word because "free speech" is a comparatively much more common phrase. But it sounds like almost any word that doesn't imply "libre" could be used to illustrate the point. I suppose beer is as good a choice as any.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  You are overthinking it here. It is not a carefully thought out phrase, but something Stallman came up with in a speech for a particular audience once, and it stuck.
- okennedy 6y ago
  Worth noting: beer is encumbered by legal restrictions in many parts of the world. In these places, even free beer is still not legally available to anyone under 16, 18, 21, etc...

dhimes 6y ago

At boat shows, a certain boating magazine guru will host "cruiser parties" after hours where you may attend and have beer and pay no money. To you, the beer is free.

BrianOnHN 6y ago

There's no such thing a free lunch. Ie. Time-spent Time spent chugging a beer is regained by removing your inhibition to say "this conversation is over."

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

joshbetz 6y ago

It’s a phrase used to describe free software. > “Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer”. We sometimes call it “libre software,” borrowing the French or Spanish word for “free” as in freedom, to show we do not mean the software is gratis. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html

psyc 6y ago

It means if someone says beer is free in whatever circumstance, we can assume they mean no cost. They don’t mean the beer has liberties or is unencumbered. If anti-prohibitionists chanted “free the beer!” that would be a different story.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

reidjs 6y ago

the expression confused me when I first heard it to. I think it should change to “free as in peanuts” or “free as in stickers” or something. It’s rare that you’ll find free beer

bronson 6y ago
Peanuts already means something with a value so close to free that it’s not worth worrying about. “That’s just peanuts compared to space.” Might be true of stickers too. To a parent, “free as stickers” probably means something that’s likely to go right in the trash bin without being used. Naming is tough.
bshimmin 6y ago
This has bothered me for years! I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who didn't already understand the concept of "free software" for whom this expression was actually helpful. (Maybe RMS lives in a world where there's a lot of free beer.) A better way of explaining this is surely that the "free" in free software is about freedom rather than about its being zero cost.

ben509 6y ago

If you go to a cookout or a party, people often bring more beer than they drink, thus people who didn't bring any can get free beer. That kind of communal donation is similar to how people donate their time and effort to open source projects.

wsc981 6y ago

> What does "free as in beer" mean? In what way is beer free? I believe another (perhaps simpler) way to say this, that should be understandable by English speaking people, is "free as in gratis".