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I got flack on here after the MAX was grounded because I said no-one will ever fly on one of those planes ever again. I’m astonished that the echo chamber betw

I got flack on here after the MAX was grounded because I said no-one will ever fly on one of those planes ever again. I’m astonished that the echo chamber between Boeing and the FAA is so oblivious to their customers that they’re plowing on ahead even prior to this latest scandal. I’m not flying with any airline that can’t guarantee my flight won’t be on one of these. I doubt I’m alone.

mehrdadn 6y ago
Does any airline guarantee a flight won't happen on MAX? I haven't heard of such a thing. Can't they later change the plane? Do they give you your money back?
- pirisek453 6y ago
  the onus is on the consumer to perform due diligence: https://www.planespotters.net/special/boeing-737-max-grounding https://www.planespotters.net/special/boeing-737-max-groundi...
- tannedNerd 6y ago
  Ya the ones that never bought them like Delta etc
  - tzsfo 6y ago
    Yet. If they are cheap enough - all the airlines will be interested. I'd guess Boeing is nearly giving them away now. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-delta-air/delta-hints-at-the-possibility-of-purchasing-boeings-737-max-ft-idUSKBN2820FD https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-delta-...
mannykannot 6y ago
> I got flack on here after the MAX was grounded because I said no-one will ever fly on one of those planes ever again. How much would you wager on that?
- discreteevent 6y ago
  Of course people will fly on it. 95% of people will be just thinking of what they want to do when they get there. They assume that someone else has verified the planes. And what else can they do? I certainly can't verify the safety of a plane.
  - mannykannot 6y ago
    Yes, and I regret making a snarky comment. There are clearly quite a few people who are determined to avoid flying on a 737 Max (or avoid Boeing altogether) and also seem to expect this to be a widespread view. While I can understand the former (though not hold it myself), there is no realistic prospect of the latter. I can't verify the safety of airliners either, but so long as they are flown by an on-board crew of professional pilots, there will be a body of informed* people with a vested interest in keeping things safe. * Though not always fully informed, which is, of course, a big part of the 737 Max debacle.
- headmelted 6y ago
  Oh zero. Even when I said it I fully understood that it wasn’t true. I was just venting. A lot of people won’t fly on these planes, but far from a majority I’m quite sure. Those same people will also be aghast if something goes wrong in the future as “they” were supposed to have made sure the planes were safe. People still want to believe in The Magical Them.
imglorp 6y ago
You know how shady mattress and TV retailers mix up the model numbers so you can't comparison shop? Your next flight might be on a 737-super-1912713-b.
- __s 6y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/20/boeing-737-max-plane-new-name-poland-enter-air https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/20/boeing-737-... 737-8
- frenchman_in_ny 6y ago
  You say that jokingly, but the configurations & carriers are actually part of the model numbers contained in the last two digits (and occasionally letter afterwards) [0]. [0] https://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2010/04/27/reader-mail-what-do-all-these-airplane-numbers-mean/ https://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2010/04/27/reader-ma...
- ansible 6y ago
  Fortunately, the 737-MAX / 737-8 is visually distinctive from the previous generations of 737. Or you could just avoid all 737s.
josefx 6y ago
> I’m not flying with any airline that can’t guarantee my flight won’t be on one of these. I doubt I’m alone. You have to outweigh the cost of retraining all pilots for an alternative plane. This whole mess happened because that is something the airlines really want to avoid and Boeing was greedy enough to offer it.
- headmelted 6y ago
  Absolutely the airline has to look at that, given that as you’ve said the big draw for airlines is redeploying their 747 crew, but that’s their problem (or not. If I’m the only person that cares enough to not fly because of it then it hardly matters).
wincy 6y ago
I flew on Spirit (which has a bad reputation but whatever, I love it for cheap flights), and they make a point before takeoff of saying their fleet is 100% Airbus planes.
- mehrdadn 6y ago
  I recall hearing Airbus had its own messes to deal with... such as https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-probe/airbus-bribery-scandal-triggers-new-probes-worldwide-idUSKBN1ZX2MW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-probe/airbus-bribe...
  - fyolnish 6y ago
    Yeah, that's just as bad as the Max.
    - headmelted 6y ago
      Joking or not joking? I don’t see repeated crashes in the article.

mehrdadn 6y ago

Does any airline guarantee a flight won't happen on MAX? I haven't heard of such a thing. Can't they later change the plane? Do they give you your money back?

pirisek453 6y ago
the onus is on the consumer to perform due diligence: https://www.planespotters.net/special/boeing-737-max-grounding https://www.planespotters.net/special/boeing-737-max-groundi...
tannedNerd 6y ago
Ya the ones that never bought them like Delta etc
- tzsfo 6y ago
  Yet. If they are cheap enough - all the airlines will be interested. I'd guess Boeing is nearly giving them away now. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-delta-air/delta-hints-at-the-possibility-of-purchasing-boeings-737-max-ft-idUSKBN2820FD https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-delta-...

mannykannot 6y ago

> I got flack on here after the MAX was grounded because I said no-one will ever fly on one of those planes ever again. How much would you wager on that?

discreteevent 6y ago
Of course people will fly on it. 95% of people will be just thinking of what they want to do when they get there. They assume that someone else has verified the planes. And what else can they do? I certainly can't verify the safety of a plane.
- mannykannot 6y ago
  Yes, and I regret making a snarky comment. There are clearly quite a few people who are determined to avoid flying on a 737 Max (or avoid Boeing altogether) and also seem to expect this to be a widespread view. While I can understand the former (though not hold it myself), there is no realistic prospect of the latter. I can't verify the safety of airliners either, but so long as they are flown by an on-board crew of professional pilots, there will be a body of informed* people with a vested interest in keeping things safe. * Though not always fully informed, which is, of course, a big part of the 737 Max debacle.
headmelted 6y ago
Oh zero. Even when I said it I fully understood that it wasn’t true. I was just venting. A lot of people won’t fly on these planes, but far from a majority I’m quite sure. Those same people will also be aghast if something goes wrong in the future as “they” were supposed to have made sure the planes were safe. People still want to believe in The Magical Them.

imglorp 6y ago

You know how shady mattress and TV retailers mix up the model numbers so you can't comparison shop? Your next flight might be on a 737-super-1912713-b.

__s 6y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/20/boeing-737-max-plane-new-name-poland-enter-air https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/20/boeing-737-... 737-8
frenchman_in_ny 6y ago
You say that jokingly, but the configurations & carriers are actually part of the model numbers contained in the last two digits (and occasionally letter afterwards) [0]. [0] https://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2010/04/27/reader-mail-what-do-all-these-airplane-numbers-mean/ https://flyingwithfish.boardingarea.com/2010/04/27/reader-ma...
ansible 6y ago
Fortunately, the 737-MAX / 737-8 is visually distinctive from the previous generations of 737. Or you could just avoid all 737s.

josefx 6y ago

> I’m not flying with any airline that can’t guarantee my flight won’t be on one of these. I doubt I’m alone. You have to outweigh the cost of retraining all pilots for an alternative plane. This whole mess happened because that is something the airlines really want to avoid and Boeing was greedy enough to offer it.

headmelted 6y ago
Absolutely the airline has to look at that, given that as you’ve said the big draw for airlines is redeploying their 747 crew, but that’s their problem (or not. If I’m the only person that cares enough to not fly because of it then it hardly matters).

wincy 6y ago

I flew on Spirit (which has a bad reputation but whatever, I love it for cheap flights), and they make a point before takeoff of saying their fleet is 100% Airbus planes.

mehrdadn 6y ago
I recall hearing Airbus had its own messes to deal with... such as https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-probe/airbus-bribery-scandal-triggers-new-probes-worldwide-idUSKBN1ZX2MW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-probe/airbus-bribe...
- fyolnish 6y ago
  Yeah, that's just as bad as the Max.
  - headmelted 6y ago
    Joking or not joking? I don’t see repeated crashes in the article.