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> but it absolutely does exist and is unfortunately thriving I'm sure it exists. I may be wrong since it's based on personal experience, but I can't believe it

> but it absolutely does exist and is unfortunately thriving I'm sure it exists. I may be wrong since it's based on personal experience, but I can't believe it's thriving (at least, in my field, computer science). These things are taken more and more seriously. If anything, I can only imagine they occur less and less frequently.

angrais 6y ago
In my experience, and that of my colleagues within a UK institution, also in computer science, the university does indeed take it seriously. We've had external auditors come in and ultimately do nothing. The problem is that the university is setup to protect itself when such reports are made, so rarely is anyone fired or such. It's a much worse situation for the student than academic.
- physicsguy 6y ago
  I live in the U.K. and did my PhD in a big department. A friend of mine got cancer and then was told by his supervisor after he returned that he wasn’t good enough anymore and he should quit. He found a new supervisor and is now doing fine. A female colleague did her PhD in Sweden and got hit on by her supervisor who kept staring at her chest every meeting, and eventually led to her leaving academia entirely. That’s a minority of people I know working in academia but it’s not small.
AuthorizedCust 6y ago
It’s not thriving in computer science because that field is competing against a tight supply of labor. Compare that to a field where you have an oversupply of PhDs, and I’m sure you’ll find different average experiences.
- angrais 6y ago
  I'm not sure how you're making the connection between competition within labour markets leading to less bullying? The research field may not be that relevant when it comes to bullying as it is prevalent across fields.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    If people know they can walk out and get a job tomorrow making good money they are a lot less likely to tolerate abuse of any kind. That’s true in CS, most Engineering fields, Economics, a few other places. If you’re in a field like English literature or Anthropology with 10-100 applicants per tenure track job and shag all industry demand for your skills your exit options are substantially worse. And culture reacts to incentives. In the end people will treat others like garbage if they can with no consequences. Good labor conditions always come down to having a good BATNA, a good exit option.
    - angrais 6y ago
      I agree, but in practice this is rarely the case for multiple reasons depending if we're taking about PhDs or postdocs. For PhDs, they've commited to a long project, so might feel defeated for quitting. For postdocs, it's true that they could likely get a job if they left, bit at the same time, the may be half way through a role and want to pursue a job in academia. Switching careers is not an easy thing to do, and that's essentially what you're doing when leaving the academy. In addition, it's worth noting that computer science is very diverse, including broad subfields such as HCI, so it's not necessarily correct in your framing of CS.
deleted 6y ago
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angrais 6y ago

In my experience, and that of my colleagues within a UK institution, also in computer science, the university does indeed take it seriously. We've had external auditors come in and ultimately do nothing. The problem is that the university is setup to protect itself when such reports are made, so rarely is anyone fired or such. It's a much worse situation for the student than academic.

physicsguy 6y ago
I live in the U.K. and did my PhD in a big department. A friend of mine got cancer and then was told by his supervisor after he returned that he wasn’t good enough anymore and he should quit. He found a new supervisor and is now doing fine. A female colleague did her PhD in Sweden and got hit on by her supervisor who kept staring at her chest every meeting, and eventually led to her leaving academia entirely. That’s a minority of people I know working in academia but it’s not small.

AuthorizedCust 6y ago

It’s not thriving in computer science because that field is competing against a tight supply of labor. Compare that to a field where you have an oversupply of PhDs, and I’m sure you’ll find different average experiences.

angrais 6y ago
I'm not sure how you're making the connection between competition within labour markets leading to less bullying? The research field may not be that relevant when it comes to bullying as it is prevalent across fields.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  If people know they can walk out and get a job tomorrow making good money they are a lot less likely to tolerate abuse of any kind. That’s true in CS, most Engineering fields, Economics, a few other places. If you’re in a field like English literature or Anthropology with 10-100 applicants per tenure track job and shag all industry demand for your skills your exit options are substantially worse. And culture reacts to incentives. In the end people will treat others like garbage if they can with no consequences. Good labor conditions always come down to having a good BATNA, a good exit option.
  - angrais 6y ago
    I agree, but in practice this is rarely the case for multiple reasons depending if we're taking about PhDs or postdocs. For PhDs, they've commited to a long project, so might feel defeated for quitting. For postdocs, it's true that they could likely get a job if they left, bit at the same time, the may be half way through a role and want to pursue a job in academia. Switching careers is not an easy thing to do, and that's essentially what you're doing when leaving the academy. In addition, it's worth noting that computer science is very diverse, including broad subfields such as HCI, so it's not necessarily correct in your framing of CS.

deleted 6y ago

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