3 ms·

I hope you'll forgive me ranting, but it's almost exactly a year ago since I left academia (was a postdoc), and I'm feeling very down about it and need to let o

by gspr 6y ago

I hope you'll forgive me ranting, but it's almost exactly a year ago since I left academia (was a postdoc), and I'm feeling very down about it and need to let out some thoughts. First the positives: academia has some amazing qualities. If you "make it" (or, alternatively, until you "fail" and drop out) you'll spend most of your time working on problems that you are truly passionate about. The kind of problems that you can't stop grinding over in the back of your head anyway. You get peace and quiet and a paycheck to sit and work on those all day. To me, doing this for life is an absolute dream!! Maybe a student two help you out. And then you get to travel the world and speak to other people who are equally passionate about this or similar problems. Yes there's teaching too. But unless you hate that, it's not a big downside. I for one enjoyed it. I've heard horror stories of the american teaching burden though, so maybe it's different if there's too much of it. And yes there's grant application pressure. Maybe I speak from too European a perspective, but I absolutely loved almost every week (every day would be an overstatement) of my 4 years as a postdoc. Every day I miss it. But the instability was killing me. I had the kindest most wonderful boss who shielded me from most of it, and in the end gave me 4 years of peace and quiet, and would have helped me go anywhere next. But I couldn't take the repeated uprooting. I wasn't good enough for a permanent position yet, or rather - not good enough for one in a place I could possibly imagine living - and forced uprootings crush my mental state. So I gave up. I don't wanna sound bitter. Hats off to those who make it. Truly! But the system has become so selective for a few "types" that I worry about its health: - Incredibly bright people. This is obviously good. - Incredibly hard working people. This is good, to a point. Not if the norm becomes giving up your life. - People who'll accept any terms. Not good, this is a slow march towards serfdom. - People who are fine with complete instability. I think academia is missing out on a lot by selecting for these. Rant over :-(

azalemeth 6y ago
I've just accepted a semi-permanent professorship after being a postdoc for several years. I've had a handful of grants accepted and the vast majority not -- some schemes have a <2% success rate (with applications coming from the best people on the planet) and the thing that just kills me is how the 'peer review' of grants tends to be "do I like you or not". I've been outright told that unless x- or y- is on the grant, it won't get funded. And, irritatingly, those complaints are right. I'm faced with the daunting -- but exciting -- prospect of trying to somehow be one of those academics who people do not hate. I very much think that the pressures are there on both sides; they're different, but being a postdoc does just suck for everything aside from the work – I think I was on my 13th short term contract (three of them 3 months or less!) before getting a permanent post. Naturally, this post is in a different country from my friends, family, and partner. I signed the paperwork last week. It's been three days and I desperately miss my partner -- who is also an academic -- and the cat. One (tenured) professor I knew left to go and work for his spin-out full time in industry. He told me that his belief was that academia was so bloody awful because it was a luxury: society wants you to continue to justify your existence sitting around and thinking every few years, whereas in a company, the $/€/£ is all the justification needed. I'm not sure to what extent I agree with that, but it's definitely plausible.
- gspr 6y ago
  The best of luck to you! And remember that the grass tends to look greener on the other side. At least you're on the side from where it's pretty easy to jump the fence if you should decide to – the other way around is a different story.
yodsanklai 6y ago
> If you "make it" (or, alternatively, until you "fail" and drop out) you'll spend most of your time working on problems that you are truly passionate about. I wonder to what extent this is correct. I heard professors saying they can do actual research only in their free time. Rest of the time is managing, administration, teaching, attending various committee and so on...
- gspr 6y ago
  I've heard similar stories from the US. In the European countries I'm familiar with, tenured staff certainly have time to do research. More of that research happens through student supervison than directly, perhaps, but still.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  Early postdoc is probably the sweet spot for (individually) working on what you love. As you become more senior, responsibilities start to accrete around you. You can make more progress on something, but you start to do so by supervising others and writing grants to make it happen, rather than just doing the work yourself. This can be satisfying, but can also devolve into endless paperwork.

by gspr 6y ago

azalemeth 6y ago

I've just accepted a semi-permanent professorship after being a postdoc for several years. I've had a handful of grants accepted and the vast majority not -- some schemes have a <2% success rate (with applications coming from the best people on the planet) and the thing that just kills me is how the 'peer review' of grants tends to be "do I like you or not". I've been outright told that unless x- or y- is on the grant, it won't get funded. And, irritatingly, those complaints are right. I'm faced with the daunting -- but exciting -- prospect of trying to somehow be one of those academics who people do not hate. I very much think that the pressures are there on both sides; they're different, but being a postdoc does just suck for everything aside from the work – I think I was on my 13th short term contract (three of them 3 months or less!) before getting a permanent post. Naturally, this post is in a different country from my friends, family, and partner. I signed the paperwork last week. It's been three days and I desperately miss my partner -- who is also an academic -- and the cat. One (tenured) professor I knew left to go and work for his spin-out full time in industry. He told me that his belief was that academia was so bloody awful because it was a luxury: society wants you to continue to justify your existence sitting around and thinking every few years, whereas in a company, the $/€/£ is all the justification needed. I'm not sure to what extent I agree with that, but it's definitely plausible.

gspr 6y ago
The best of luck to you! And remember that the grass tends to look greener on the other side. At least you're on the side from where it's pretty easy to jump the fence if you should decide to – the other way around is a different story.

yodsanklai 6y ago

> If you "make it" (or, alternatively, until you "fail" and drop out) you'll spend most of your time working on problems that you are truly passionate about. I wonder to what extent this is correct. I heard professors saying they can do actual research only in their free time. Rest of the time is managing, administration, teaching, attending various committee and so on...

gspr 6y ago
I've heard similar stories from the US. In the European countries I'm familiar with, tenured staff certainly have time to do research. More of that research happens through student supervison than directly, perhaps, but still.
mattkrause 6y ago
Early postdoc is probably the sweet spot for (individually) working on what you love. As you become more senior, responsibilities start to accrete around you. You can make more progress on something, but you start to do so by supervising others and writing grants to make it happen, rather than just doing the work yourself. This can be satisfying, but can also devolve into endless paperwork.