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Why Cloud is Like Email in the 1980's

23 points by pwg 16y ago

j_baker 16y ago
I don't get the analogy. Why do clouds need to be interconnected in some way they aren't now?
- gallerytungsten 16y ago
  Presumably, Cerf is talking about being able to use different cloud service providers as "parts" in assembling a larger whole. Cerf's comments suggest an opportunity for someone to assemble a "meta cloud" cloud service which provides this type of interconnection and interoperability. Such a service would have a limited lifespan, as eventually one of the major cloud operators would acquire it, or build the same functionality.
- rmason 16y ago
  You could build an infrastructure across multiple clouds. When AWS went down your software would automatically fire up more instances on GAE or Rackspace Cloud to replace it. A complex layer of software that knitted everything together would result in a large increase in reliability.
  - miGlanz 16y ago
    How is that not possible today?
    - wwrap 16y ago
      It could be 'serverside' rather than 'clientside'. As in, sure you can connect the AIM and MSN chat networks, but you yourself have to run a server to connect the two. Currently one also has to have migration functionality written by themselves. Instead, amazon could provide it, just like AIM could provide an MSN gateway themselves.
sdkmvx 16y ago
So what is the cloud protocol? I'm not sure this guy even understands what a cloud is. Email messages all look the same (headers, then message) and they were mostly transferred on SMTP. How would anyone possibly interconnect AWS and Rackspace? Dropbox and Let's Crate? etc.
- Drakim 16y ago
  I think his point was mostly that pressure would eventually cause different cloud services to allow intermingling of functionality. For instance, editing a document on a Google storage service though Microsoft's webapp, or vise versa, without having to manually move stuff over. I'm skeptical though. Companies always find some excuse to prevent the customer from using other companies products.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- sunir 16y ago
  There was a time before SMTP. Vint Cerf was there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf The historical analogy is sound and worth considering.
  - sdkmvx 16y ago
    > There was a time before SMTP. That is why I mentioned common format (headers + message) and 'mostly' SMTP. But for early email, allowing users to email someone at a different computer wasn't an issue of profit. 'Cloud' companies don't want you to use another company's products. Google doesn't want your docs stored on Dropbox. That issue didn't exist with email, and if you look at something like Facebook messages, you can't send a message from a Facebook account to a Myspace (or whatever else) account. That, more than anything else, is going to inhibit 'cloud' growth.
MichaelGG 16y ago
I'm not so sure. Even instant messaging has not done much interop. Users on AOL and MSN cannot IM each other. This is a very popular, end-user scenario with network effects. Wouldn't that be the "same pressures" as email? Why would "clouds", which are mostly a concern of IT and software implementation folk, get pressure to interop like email? He's obviously smarter and has better perspective than me, so what does he mean? Perhaps API compatibility because everyone will adopt AWS and OpenStack APIs?
mtogo 16y ago
This article used everything required to get a frontpage HN submission: 1. The word cloud
rick888 16y ago
it's more like '.net'. Remember when this was the latest buzz words and nobody really knew what it meant?

23 points by pwg 16y ago

j_baker 16y ago

I don't get the analogy. Why do clouds need to be interconnected in some way they aren't now?

gallerytungsten 16y ago
Presumably, Cerf is talking about being able to use different cloud service providers as "parts" in assembling a larger whole. Cerf's comments suggest an opportunity for someone to assemble a "meta cloud" cloud service which provides this type of interconnection and interoperability. Such a service would have a limited lifespan, as eventually one of the major cloud operators would acquire it, or build the same functionality.
rmason 16y ago
You could build an infrastructure across multiple clouds. When AWS went down your software would automatically fire up more instances on GAE or Rackspace Cloud to replace it. A complex layer of software that knitted everything together would result in a large increase in reliability.
- miGlanz 16y ago
  How is that not possible today?
  - wwrap 16y ago
    It could be 'serverside' rather than 'clientside'. As in, sure you can connect the AIM and MSN chat networks, but you yourself have to run a server to connect the two. Currently one also has to have migration functionality written by themselves. Instead, amazon could provide it, just like AIM could provide an MSN gateway themselves.

sdkmvx 16y ago

So what is the cloud protocol? I'm not sure this guy even understands what a cloud is. Email messages all look the same (headers, then message) and they were mostly transferred on SMTP. How would anyone possibly interconnect AWS and Rackspace? Dropbox and Let's Crate? etc.

Drakim 16y ago
I think his point was mostly that pressure would eventually cause different cloud services to allow intermingling of functionality. For instance, editing a document on a Google storage service though Microsoft's webapp, or vise versa, without having to manually move stuff over. I'm skeptical though. Companies always find some excuse to prevent the customer from using other companies products.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
sunir 16y ago
There was a time before SMTP. Vint Cerf was there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf The historical analogy is sound and worth considering.
- sdkmvx 16y ago
  > There was a time before SMTP. That is why I mentioned common format (headers + message) and 'mostly' SMTP. But for early email, allowing users to email someone at a different computer wasn't an issue of profit. 'Cloud' companies don't want you to use another company's products. Google doesn't want your docs stored on Dropbox. That issue didn't exist with email, and if you look at something like Facebook messages, you can't send a message from a Facebook account to a Myspace (or whatever else) account. That, more than anything else, is going to inhibit 'cloud' growth.

MichaelGG 16y ago

I'm not so sure. Even instant messaging has not done much interop. Users on AOL and MSN cannot IM each other. This is a very popular, end-user scenario with network effects. Wouldn't that be the "same pressures" as email? Why would "clouds", which are mostly a concern of IT and software implementation folk, get pressure to interop like email? He's obviously smarter and has better perspective than me, so what does he mean? Perhaps API compatibility because everyone will adopt AWS and OpenStack APIs?

mtogo 16y ago

This article used everything required to get a frontpage HN submission: 1. The word cloud

rick888 16y ago

it's more like '.net'. Remember when this was the latest buzz words and nobody really knew what it meant?