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No, it’s just apples and oranges. The USA is a flawed constitutional republic that runs on a messy democratic process. It’s ugly sometimes, but it’s fundamental

No, it’s just apples and oranges. The USA is a flawed constitutional republic that runs on a messy democratic process. It’s ugly sometimes, but it’s fundamentally good. The PRC is something else.

rixed 6y ago
To be fair, the parent was not comparing those governments from a democracy standpoint, but was comparing their actions. Surely the Chinese government is currently more oppressive to its own population than the USG is, but it is also doubtlessly less oppressive to foreign populations, which may suggests that they differ in circumstances more than in essence and maybe why the parent equated them?
- smaddox 6y ago
  > but it is also doubtlessly less oppressive to foreign populations ... So I assume you're counting Uighurs as non-foreign populations? Perhaps you should rethink your perspective.
- nyokodo 6y ago
  Tibetans might beg to differ on the CCP being less oppressive to foreign populations.
  - tehjoker 6y ago
    https://medium.com/race-class-history/tibet-the-dalai-lama-feudalism-slavery-and-the-great-game-10dd833272ac https://medium.com/race-class-history/tibet-the-dalai-lama-f...
tehjoker 6y ago
The US is an anti-majoritarian country of the elites that has enough advertising to convince people that they feel free while the elites control every aspect of their lives. While there are levels to this, it would be a huge mistake to regard this place as fundamentally good outside of a few sentences snipped from the declaration of independence.
sneak 6y ago
The US CIA runs a global secret network of unaccountable torture prisons. When the US congress tried to investigate them, the CIA compromised the congressional computers to avoid oversight of their torture programs, then lied about compromising them. The US military conducts bulk espionage on everyone inside the country, in violation of the country's own basic law. The differences aren't quite as stark as you think. I also believe that if you ask the average Chinese or Russian person (the US bogeymen of the season) they would also believe that their country is fundamentally good. It turns out humans everywhere are fundamentally good, and governments everywhere tend toward illegal and oppressive authoritatianism, given enough time to gather resources, size, and fear.

rixed 6y ago

To be fair, the parent was not comparing those governments from a democracy standpoint, but was comparing their actions. Surely the Chinese government is currently more oppressive to its own population than the USG is, but it is also doubtlessly less oppressive to foreign populations, which may suggests that they differ in circumstances more than in essence and maybe why the parent equated them?

smaddox 6y ago
> but it is also doubtlessly less oppressive to foreign populations ... So I assume you're counting Uighurs as non-foreign populations? Perhaps you should rethink your perspective.
nyokodo 6y ago
Tibetans might beg to differ on the CCP being less oppressive to foreign populations.
- tehjoker 6y ago
  https://medium.com/race-class-history/tibet-the-dalai-lama-feudalism-slavery-and-the-great-game-10dd833272ac https://medium.com/race-class-history/tibet-the-dalai-lama-f...

tehjoker 6y ago

The US is an anti-majoritarian country of the elites that has enough advertising to convince people that they feel free while the elites control every aspect of their lives. While there are levels to this, it would be a huge mistake to regard this place as fundamentally good outside of a few sentences snipped from the declaration of independence.

sneak 6y ago

The US CIA runs a global secret network of unaccountable torture prisons. When the US congress tried to investigate them, the CIA compromised the congressional computers to avoid oversight of their torture programs, then lied about compromising them. The US military conducts bulk espionage on everyone inside the country, in violation of the country's own basic law. The differences aren't quite as stark as you think. I also believe that if you ask the average Chinese or Russian person (the US bogeymen of the season) they would also believe that their country is fundamentally good. It turns out humans everywhere are fundamentally good, and governments everywhere tend toward illegal and oppressive authoritatianism, given enough time to gather resources, size, and fear.