5 ms·

This is not at all the case in the fields I work in. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather be a professor than a postdoc but it is way, way more stressful.

chrisseaton 6y ago
As a professor isn't your chair funded and guaranteed? What are you stressing about? Retaining the chair?
- OminousWeapons 6y ago
  It depends on the field, but in several fields (eg life sciences) if you do not keep output up, you will be unable to attract grant funding or industry funding. Without funding, you cannot really do any work. Additionally, without funding or papers, you will not be able to recruit students because students want to get their name on papers and want to work for prestigious groups or labs. Without students, you will be doing all the grunt work on every project you take on yourself which will eat up all your time. You will also have newfound responsibilities such as teaching classes, and the university will expect you to teach more classes if you are not bringing in grant funding or doing prestigious research. It is not a free ride, and universities will take space from you and give it to people who can produce if you can't as space is scarce.
- michaelhoffman 6y ago
  I don't know what you mean by my "chair". The biggest worry for most professors I talk to in grant-funded fields (which is most of the natural sciences and engineering) is not getting grant funding and having to lay off some or all members of our research group. In Canada, biomedical grant application success rates are around 14% so this is a pretty big worry. People who are pre-tenure or in organizational units where there is no tenure (which includes a lot of medical researchers) also have to worry about losing their job. In the U.S., very few professors can get paid their whole 12-month salary without getting some grant funding to pay for it. Some universities will commit 75% of the professor's salary as "hard money"—these are the ones with the bigger teaching loads. Others will provide only 5% of the salary and expect the professor to get the rest through grant funding. If you can't do it, expect to get a pay cut or lose your job. This is the prevailing model at elite medical research institutions like Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, or University of California, San Francisco.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > I don't know what you mean by my "chair". Becoming a professor is called getting your 'chair' isn't it? I don't know any professors who don't also have tenure - that seems a contradiction in terms to me. But if you don't know what I mean we're probably talking about different things and possibly talking at cross-purposes.
    - michaelhoffman 6y ago
      > Becoming a professor is called getting your 'chair' isn't it? No. > I don't know any professors who don't also have tenure - that seems a contradiction in terms to me. Assistant professors generally do not have tenure, and at some institutions being an associate professor or full professor is no guarantee either. > But if you don't know what I mean we're probably talking about different things and possibly talking at cross-purposes. I know what you mean; you're just incorrect and spreading misinformation based on your limited experience.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        I'm not making it up out of nowhere! > Meaning "office of a professor" (1816) is extended from the seat from which a professor lectures (mid-15c.). https://www.etymonline.com/word/chair https://www.etymonline.com/word/chair Seems to be in-use in the US? https://depts.washington.edu/givemed/prof-chair/creating-your-chair-or-professorship/ https://depts.washington.edu/givemed/prof-chair/creating-you... It even talks about how the endowment for the professorship or chair funds the professor.
        michaelhoffman 6y ago
        Yes, it is true that there are SOME professors with chairs. Not that all professors have a chair. analog31 already explained this in response to your last comment.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
- analog31 6y ago
  Yes and no. First of all, you don't get tenure right away, so your first few years are brutal -- 80 hour weeks. You typically get "start up" funding, which eventually runs out. Then you have to come up with your own money. The basic salary is 9 months. Your summer salary comes out of your own grants. Also, if you stop making research progress, your promotions and pay raises evaporate, and it becomes difficult to promote yourself by job hopping. Think of it like you're a shopkeeper at the mall, and someone is paying your rent for you, which is nice, but you have to figure out how to actually make money.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > you don't get tenure right away I don't understand how you can be a professor and not be tenured, so I guess we're talking about different things.
    - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
      > "I don't understand how you can be a professor and not be tenured" Sound like you are laboring under considerable misconceptions about the way academia works. To the best of my knowledge, there are no institutions that automatically grant tenure upon being hired as a professor, let alone a chair, which is considered prestigious. There are various ranks of professorship and assistant professors (entry level) have to work their way up to earning tenure and it not rare to fail to do so; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_S...
      - analog31 6y ago
        Indeed, getting hired with tenure, much less into a chair, is rarely or ever your first job. But if you already have tenure, then you are likely to be hired with tenure if you switch to another university. You don't have to start from scratch, otherwise nobody in their right mind would ever switch jobs. The grade level and tenure are always negotiable.
    - analog31 6y ago
- tome 6y ago
  The confusion seems to be arising because in the UK the levels are named "lecturer, senior lecturer, reader, professor" and in the US the levels are named "assistant professor, associate professor, (full) professor". In the UK "professor" is a very high ranking position that most academics don't attain. In the US "professor" just means that you teach, basically.

chrisseaton 6y ago

As a professor isn't your chair funded and guaranteed? What are you stressing about? Retaining the chair?

OminousWeapons 6y ago
It depends on the field, but in several fields (eg life sciences) if you do not keep output up, you will be unable to attract grant funding or industry funding. Without funding, you cannot really do any work. Additionally, without funding or papers, you will not be able to recruit students because students want to get their name on papers and want to work for prestigious groups or labs. Without students, you will be doing all the grunt work on every project you take on yourself which will eat up all your time. You will also have newfound responsibilities such as teaching classes, and the university will expect you to teach more classes if you are not bringing in grant funding or doing prestigious research. It is not a free ride, and universities will take space from you and give it to people who can produce if you can't as space is scarce.
michaelhoffman 6y ago
I don't know what you mean by my "chair". The biggest worry for most professors I talk to in grant-funded fields (which is most of the natural sciences and engineering) is not getting grant funding and having to lay off some or all members of our research group. In Canada, biomedical grant application success rates are around 14% so this is a pretty big worry. People who are pre-tenure or in organizational units where there is no tenure (which includes a lot of medical researchers) also have to worry about losing their job. In the U.S., very few professors can get paid their whole 12-month salary without getting some grant funding to pay for it. Some universities will commit 75% of the professor's salary as "hard money"—these are the ones with the bigger teaching loads. Others will provide only 5% of the salary and expect the professor to get the rest through grant funding. If you can't do it, expect to get a pay cut or lose your job. This is the prevailing model at elite medical research institutions like Harvard Medical School, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, or University of California, San Francisco.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > I don't know what you mean by my "chair". Becoming a professor is called getting your 'chair' isn't it? I don't know any professors who don't also have tenure - that seems a contradiction in terms to me. But if you don't know what I mean we're probably talking about different things and possibly talking at cross-purposes.
  - michaelhoffman 6y ago
    > Becoming a professor is called getting your 'chair' isn't it? No. > I don't know any professors who don't also have tenure - that seems a contradiction in terms to me. Assistant professors generally do not have tenure, and at some institutions being an associate professor or full professor is no guarantee either. > But if you don't know what I mean we're probably talking about different things and possibly talking at cross-purposes. I know what you mean; you're just incorrect and spreading misinformation based on your limited experience.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      I'm not making it up out of nowhere! > Meaning "office of a professor" (1816) is extended from the seat from which a professor lectures (mid-15c.). https://www.etymonline.com/word/chair https://www.etymonline.com/word/chair Seems to be in-use in the US? https://depts.washington.edu/givemed/prof-chair/creating-your-chair-or-professorship/ https://depts.washington.edu/givemed/prof-chair/creating-you... It even talks about how the endowment for the professorship or chair funds the professor.
      - michaelhoffman 6y ago
        Yes, it is true that there are SOME professors with chairs. Not that all professors have a chair. analog31 already explained this in response to your last comment.
        chrisseaton 6y ago
analog31 6y ago
Yes and no. First of all, you don't get tenure right away, so your first few years are brutal -- 80 hour weeks. You typically get "start up" funding, which eventually runs out. Then you have to come up with your own money. The basic salary is 9 months. Your summer salary comes out of your own grants. Also, if you stop making research progress, your promotions and pay raises evaporate, and it becomes difficult to promote yourself by job hopping. Think of it like you're a shopkeeper at the mall, and someone is paying your rent for you, which is nice, but you have to figure out how to actually make money.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > you don't get tenure right away I don't understand how you can be a professor and not be tenured, so I guess we're talking about different things.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "I don't understand how you can be a professor and not be tenured" Sound like you are laboring under considerable misconceptions about the way academia works. To the best of my knowledge, there are no institutions that automatically grant tenure upon being hired as a professor, let alone a chair, which is considered prestigious. There are various ranks of professorship and assistant professors (entry level) have to work their way up to earning tenure and it not rare to fail to do so; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_ranks_in_the_United_S...
    - analog31 6y ago
      Indeed, getting hired with tenure, much less into a chair, is rarely or ever your first job. But if you already have tenure, then you are likely to be hired with tenure if you switch to another university. You don't have to start from scratch, otherwise nobody in their right mind would ever switch jobs. The grade level and tenure are always negotiable.
  - analog31 6y ago
tome 6y ago
The confusion seems to be arising because in the UK the levels are named "lecturer, senior lecturer, reader, professor" and in the US the levels are named "assistant professor, associate professor, (full) professor". In the UK "professor" is a very high ranking position that most academics don't attain. In the US "professor" just means that you teach, basically.