5 ms·

You’re going to tell me building random proteins in a persons body is not a Faustian Bargain?

by anonymouse008 6y ago

m3kw9 6y ago
Prob a safety req foe most work or travel. You gonna need one or another.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Sorry. No that's a violation of HIPAA and basic human rights.
  - vkou 6y ago
    Being a vector of a deadly infectious disease, and not taking basic precautions infringes on the human rights of people around you. Anti-vaxxers are generally tolerated until there's a critical mass of them, which start causing problems for everyone else.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      No it doesn't. Viruses have been around longer than humans have, so NOTHING HAS CHANGED. We have been through SMALLPOX, TUBERCULOSIS, SPANISH FLU, PLAGUE, AIDS, and many, many other pandemics and NEVER, EVER has anyone been insidious enough to suggest a vaccine as a prerequisite for human rights. You need to reevaluate your logic and life choices. This disease already has a 99.9% survival rate for the general population and much higher in certain demographics. At any rate, government tyranny has killed millions and millions more than viruses have. And I won't stand for it. Medical tyranny will never be tolerated. If YOU want the vaccine, you get it. That's how liberty works.
      - anonymouse008 6y ago
        It feels like screaming into the void
      - useragent86 6y ago
        I've mostly given up on HN as a forum for free discussion, because the mods' endorsement of downvote-for-disagreement results in comments like yours (reasonable, historically informed, advocating liberty and actual human rights) being downvoted to obscurity, while the comments full of manipulative, Orwellian word games ("You don't want to take a vaccine? You're refusing basic precautions and infringing upon my human rights!") are prized. So, while I used to write comments like yours, myself, I don't bother anymore. I'd have to spend years toeing the line to build up enough karma to not get shadowbanned for it. Anyway, I sign in here to say that I'm with you. I think it's important to show that this point of view is not the minority view in this country, and maybe even the world, despite all the media does to make it look like it is. It looks like China's already started World War 3 in terms of "Unrestricted Warfare" (China's term, not mine): financial, biological, psychological, political. Just regarding COVID, they told the world COVID wasn't infectious between people, they held a 40,000-person potluck dinner in Wuhan while the virus was spreading and then let people travel out of the city, they threatened to turn ships around and withhold masks and medicine produced in China...how can anyone look at what China's done and not recognize their malicious intent? At the same time, they're building up their military around the world, indebting poor African nations, pushing their troops into Nepal and India (and actually killing Indian soldiers)...the list goes on and on. We have to wake up before it's too late. [Of course, the 50 Cent Army is active on HN. Watch my comment fade away...]
      - blackbear_ 6y ago
        Uhm, the Spanish flu infected 500 million people (6.5 times more than covid19) and killed about 50 million (33 times more than covid19). And if you consider that the world at that time had just about 2 billion people, a modern Spanish flu would have killed 175 million people (100 times more than covid19), and probably more since denser population makes it easier for viruses to spread. Now, we have the (repeatedly) proven ability to avoid such a disaster, and you argue we should not? You really think protection from disease is not a basic human right?
Filligree 6y ago
Viruses do it all the time. It can indeed cause trouble, but a random mutated rhinovirus is more likely to do so (allergies, typically) than a vaccine which was developed specifically to not cause any damage.
- schoen 6y ago
  This xkcd from last week is about precisely this issue! https://xkcd.com/2397/ https://xkcd.com/2397/
  - anonymouse008 6y ago
    We think way too highly of ourselves as a species
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  I’ll fight natural selection any day... crispr, no way. We are not gods. At least with previous vaccines we just killed off the active parts and said “hey, go bull fight this” to our immune system. Last bit: Leverage works in both ways
  - emsy 6y ago
    Organism evolves the capabilities to understands diseases and develops ways to fight them, if that isn’t natural selection what is?
  - m4eta 6y ago
    This idea that "We are not gods." Such a peculiar argument. If something is capable by a mortal man what makes you think it has god-like qualities? To me it is the opposite. Also since you're using the word "gods" are you referring to polytheism? Where did you decide you were capable of determining a "god-like" thing? You. Are. Confusing. Me.
isoprophlex 6y ago
Your body constructs "wrong" proteins all the time due to translation or folding errors. It depends on the function of the protein if this leads to a bad outcome.
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  Exactly — and I rely upon the many hundreds of thousands of years of experience and direct “winning” to beat adversaries. This statement cuts both ways — if this recent pandemic was human made we need human solutions... only IF the virus is insurmountable. As someone with direct experience with a large N, this virus is nothing to exponentially increase long term and second order risk with human “solutions” ... UNLESS the long term effects for asymptomatic cases are severe and under reported. Again... too many variables outstanding to be certain, but highly cautious

You’re going to tell me building random proteins in a persons body is not a Faustian Bargain?

m3kw9 6y ago

Prob a safety req foe most work or travel. You gonna need one or another.

chrisco255 6y ago
Sorry. No that's a violation of HIPAA and basic human rights.
- vkou 6y ago
  Being a vector of a deadly infectious disease, and not taking basic precautions infringes on the human rights of people around you. Anti-vaxxers are generally tolerated until there's a critical mass of them, which start causing problems for everyone else.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    No it doesn't. Viruses have been around longer than humans have, so NOTHING HAS CHANGED. We have been through SMALLPOX, TUBERCULOSIS, SPANISH FLU, PLAGUE, AIDS, and many, many other pandemics and NEVER, EVER has anyone been insidious enough to suggest a vaccine as a prerequisite for human rights. You need to reevaluate your logic and life choices. This disease already has a 99.9% survival rate for the general population and much higher in certain demographics. At any rate, government tyranny has killed millions and millions more than viruses have. And I won't stand for it. Medical tyranny will never be tolerated. If YOU want the vaccine, you get it. That's how liberty works.
    - anonymouse008 6y ago
      It feels like screaming into the void
    - useragent86 6y ago
      I've mostly given up on HN as a forum for free discussion, because the mods' endorsement of downvote-for-disagreement results in comments like yours (reasonable, historically informed, advocating liberty and actual human rights) being downvoted to obscurity, while the comments full of manipulative, Orwellian word games ("You don't want to take a vaccine? You're refusing basic precautions and infringing upon my human rights!") are prized. So, while I used to write comments like yours, myself, I don't bother anymore. I'd have to spend years toeing the line to build up enough karma to not get shadowbanned for it. Anyway, I sign in here to say that I'm with you. I think it's important to show that this point of view is not the minority view in this country, and maybe even the world, despite all the media does to make it look like it is. It looks like China's already started World War 3 in terms of "Unrestricted Warfare" (China's term, not mine): financial, biological, psychological, political. Just regarding COVID, they told the world COVID wasn't infectious between people, they held a 40,000-person potluck dinner in Wuhan while the virus was spreading and then let people travel out of the city, they threatened to turn ships around and withhold masks and medicine produced in China...how can anyone look at what China's done and not recognize their malicious intent? At the same time, they're building up their military around the world, indebting poor African nations, pushing their troops into Nepal and India (and actually killing Indian soldiers)...the list goes on and on. We have to wake up before it's too late. [Of course, the 50 Cent Army is active on HN. Watch my comment fade away...]
    - blackbear_ 6y ago
      Uhm, the Spanish flu infected 500 million people (6.5 times more than covid19) and killed about 50 million (33 times more than covid19). And if you consider that the world at that time had just about 2 billion people, a modern Spanish flu would have killed 175 million people (100 times more than covid19), and probably more since denser population makes it easier for viruses to spread. Now, we have the (repeatedly) proven ability to avoid such a disaster, and you argue we should not? You really think protection from disease is not a basic human right?

Filligree 6y ago

Viruses do it all the time. It can indeed cause trouble, but a random mutated rhinovirus is more likely to do so (allergies, typically) than a vaccine which was developed specifically to not cause any damage.

schoen 6y ago
This xkcd from last week is about precisely this issue! https://xkcd.com/2397/ https://xkcd.com/2397/
- anonymouse008 6y ago
  We think way too highly of ourselves as a species
anonymouse008 6y ago
I’ll fight natural selection any day... crispr, no way. We are not gods. At least with previous vaccines we just killed off the active parts and said “hey, go bull fight this” to our immune system. Last bit: Leverage works in both ways
- emsy 6y ago
  Organism evolves the capabilities to understands diseases and develops ways to fight them, if that isn’t natural selection what is?
- m4eta 6y ago
  This idea that "We are not gods." Such a peculiar argument. If something is capable by a mortal man what makes you think it has god-like qualities? To me it is the opposite. Also since you're using the word "gods" are you referring to polytheism? Where did you decide you were capable of determining a "god-like" thing? You. Are. Confusing. Me.

isoprophlex 6y ago

Your body constructs "wrong" proteins all the time due to translation or folding errors. It depends on the function of the protein if this leads to a bad outcome.

anonymouse008 6y ago
Exactly — and I rely upon the many hundreds of thousands of years of experience and direct “winning” to beat adversaries. This statement cuts both ways — if this recent pandemic was human made we need human solutions... only IF the virus is insurmountable. As someone with direct experience with a large N, this virus is nothing to exponentially increase long term and second order risk with human “solutions” ... UNLESS the long term effects for asymptomatic cases are severe and under reported. Again... too many variables outstanding to be certain, but highly cautious