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My belief is that government cannot deprive people from living their lives especially without evidence of the effectiveness of lockdown. We’ve been fed this li

My belief is that government cannot deprive people from living their lives especially without evidence of the effectiveness of lockdown. We’ve been fed this line that if we don’t do everything they say the sky will fall, yet so far that hasn’t happen and there’s no clear indication any of the mitigation efforts have worked. And when pressed it’s always “well we didn’t do enough last time.” Enough! Let people exercise caution. Eradication of a respiratory virus is like getting the army to tape leaves back on all the trees in the country. It’s the Don Quijote School of Public Health. Rich technocrats that don’t have their livelihoods, mental health, and families’ well-being on the line. And now in the US we’re being told that mortality doesn’t matter and now is the perfect time to practice race equity by distributing vaccines to black people first. Bullshit!

jasonlaramburu 6y ago
China, the most populous country on Earth, reported 12 cases yesterday. They achieved this through a ruthless and unyielding lockdown that lasted many months. You may not believe their stats but they are having concerts unmasked in Wuhan. If you want to stop the virus from rebounding you have to eradicate it completely.
- lsllc 6y ago
  This is an interesting read (I submitted it today but it didn't go anywhere! [0]) -- it tells the story of Justin Jin who travels back to China to visit his father who needed some life-saving surgery. Basically, it covers the very comprehensive way China is working to prevent Covid-19 from entering the country via air: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/shorter-quarantines-could-help-prevent-coronavirus-outbreaks/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/shorter-q... Meanwhile in Massachusetts, despite the travel order and requirement to fill out travel form when entering the state; and with over 1M passengers landing at Logan since the order, not to mention probably tens of thousands of daily car and train entries to MA, only 347,801 people bothered to fill out the form since August: https://whdh.com/7-investigates/7-investigates-massachusetts-travel-order-enforcement/ https://whdh.com/7-investigates/7-investigates-massachusetts... And of course MA is currently seeing a massive surge in cases, despite having one of the better responses in the US (incl. universal masking since May). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468076
  - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
    Yes I think one of the biggest failures in the US was leaving the pandemic response up to the individual states. What good is a lockdown in New Mexico if you can drive across the border to Texas and do whatever you want?
    - lsllc 6y ago
      Well, the constitution is pretty clear -- the police powers belong to the states, there's not much the federal government can do (short of amending the constitution): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_constitutional_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_co...
      - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
        The executive branch actively encouraged states to do nothing and create chaos. It wasn’t a question of constitutionality, but lack of leadership.
- closeparen 6y ago
  Social distancing all the way until mass vaccination is asking a lot more of people than China did. Being in half-assed lockdowns indefinitely is more painful (and gets less compliance) than a real lockdown with an end date and a light at the end of the tunnel.
  - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
    Completely agree. Had the US done a nationwide lockdown (full and complete, only leave home for emergencies) for 2-3 months life would be back to normal today. Chinese style border controls and quarantines would protect against new infections.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  Go move there, please have fun with a genocidal surveillance state. > If you want to stop the virus from rebounding you have to eradicate it completely. I don’t care about micromanaging a respiratory virus. Let people manage risk given the circumstances of their life. In the US that is the right of every citizen. Unless of course you’re part of the rich managerial class that wants to micromanage the lives of people you view below you, too dumb to evaluate the circumstances of their own lives. It’s gobsmacking that we’re told you must “be ruthless” in order to be empathetic. Like I said, if Chinese authoritarianism is appealing, I implore you to move, obviously you have no reason to be here.
  - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
    > Let people manage risk given the circumstances of their life. I believe that taking extra steps to help others is the most ‘American’ value we have. What you propose is only selfish. I lost a close family member to COVID. Her death was entirely preventable with sensible policy. I encourage you to be empathetic and consider how your naive attitude might change if that happened to you.
    - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
      There’s children committing suicide over lockdown. Peoples’ livelihoods are destroyed. You’re talking about “sensible policies” but then reference China as though welding people in their houses is just common sense. Every “enlightened” country in Europe that people reference otherwise for their political benefit has fared poorly. This is not even remotely as straightforward and one-sided as you’re presenting it. The moralistic attitude about “selfishness” is just an extension of the Puritanical instinct of Progressive ideology. It’s a strange authoritarian impulse that resents anyone who’s not constantly aggrieved or devoted to some technocratic utopian vision where everyone’s sacrificing themselves for the cause. Traditionally the conservatives were the censorious grumps who wanted to control everyone’s immoral profligate lifestyle, but now it’s the norm on the left - blaming every ill of society on the wickedness and sinful ways of people who disagree with them politically.
      - 6y ago

jasonlaramburu 6y ago

China, the most populous country on Earth, reported 12 cases yesterday. They achieved this through a ruthless and unyielding lockdown that lasted many months. You may not believe their stats but they are having concerts unmasked in Wuhan. If you want to stop the virus from rebounding you have to eradicate it completely.

lsllc 6y ago
This is an interesting read (I submitted it today but it didn't go anywhere! [0]) -- it tells the story of Justin Jin who travels back to China to visit his father who needed some life-saving surgery. Basically, it covers the very comprehensive way China is working to prevent Covid-19 from entering the country via air: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/shorter-quarantines-could-help-prevent-coronavirus-outbreaks/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/12/shorter-q... Meanwhile in Massachusetts, despite the travel order and requirement to fill out travel form when entering the state; and with over 1M passengers landing at Logan since the order, not to mention probably tens of thousands of daily car and train entries to MA, only 347,801 people bothered to fill out the form since August: https://whdh.com/7-investigates/7-investigates-massachusetts-travel-order-enforcement/ https://whdh.com/7-investigates/7-investigates-massachusetts... And of course MA is currently seeing a massive surge in cases, despite having one of the better responses in the US (incl. universal masking since May). [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468076
- jasonlaramburu 6y ago
  Yes I think one of the biggest failures in the US was leaving the pandemic response up to the individual states. What good is a lockdown in New Mexico if you can drive across the border to Texas and do whatever you want?
  - lsllc 6y ago
    Well, the constitution is pretty clear -- the police powers belong to the states, there's not much the federal government can do (short of amending the constitution): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_constitutional_law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_power_(United_States_co...
    - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
      The executive branch actively encouraged states to do nothing and create chaos. It wasn’t a question of constitutionality, but lack of leadership.
closeparen 6y ago
Social distancing all the way until mass vaccination is asking a lot more of people than China did. Being in half-assed lockdowns indefinitely is more painful (and gets less compliance) than a real lockdown with an end date and a light at the end of the tunnel.
- jasonlaramburu 6y ago
  Completely agree. Had the US done a nationwide lockdown (full and complete, only leave home for emergencies) for 2-3 months life would be back to normal today. Chinese style border controls and quarantines would protect against new infections.
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
Go move there, please have fun with a genocidal surveillance state. > If you want to stop the virus from rebounding you have to eradicate it completely. I don’t care about micromanaging a respiratory virus. Let people manage risk given the circumstances of their life. In the US that is the right of every citizen. Unless of course you’re part of the rich managerial class that wants to micromanage the lives of people you view below you, too dumb to evaluate the circumstances of their own lives. It’s gobsmacking that we’re told you must “be ruthless” in order to be empathetic. Like I said, if Chinese authoritarianism is appealing, I implore you to move, obviously you have no reason to be here.
- jasonlaramburu 6y ago
  > Let people manage risk given the circumstances of their life. I believe that taking extra steps to help others is the most ‘American’ value we have. What you propose is only selfish. I lost a close family member to COVID. Her death was entirely preventable with sensible policy. I encourage you to be empathetic and consider how your naive attitude might change if that happened to you.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    There’s children committing suicide over lockdown. Peoples’ livelihoods are destroyed. You’re talking about “sensible policies” but then reference China as though welding people in their houses is just common sense. Every “enlightened” country in Europe that people reference otherwise for their political benefit has fared poorly. This is not even remotely as straightforward and one-sided as you’re presenting it. The moralistic attitude about “selfishness” is just an extension of the Puritanical instinct of Progressive ideology. It’s a strange authoritarian impulse that resents anyone who’s not constantly aggrieved or devoted to some technocratic utopian vision where everyone’s sacrificing themselves for the cause. Traditionally the conservatives were the censorious grumps who wanted to control everyone’s immoral profligate lifestyle, but now it’s the norm on the left - blaming every ill of society on the wickedness and sinful ways of people who disagree with them politically.
    - 6y ago