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I've enjoyed high level programming so far (think Java, Swift). But for the sake of argument, I'm gonna say this: high level languages (& their runtime environm

by s1k3s 6y ago

I've enjoyed high level programming so far (think Java, Swift). But for the sake of argument, I'm gonna say this: high level languages (& their runtime environments) take control over the code that the programmer writes. Speaking of "computing environments", I'm unease with the fact that I don't really know that my Swift program is doing in the background, and more so, the fact that the vendor (Oracle, Google, Apple etc) tries so hard to prevent me from finding out.

zepto 6y ago
Swift really isn’t doing anything “in the background”. There is no virtual machine, and nothing is happening other than your code and the libraries you use. It’s only high level from the point of view of the type system.
rsynnott 6y ago
> I'm unease with the fact that I don't really know that my Swift program is doing in the background, and more so, the fact that the vendor (Oracle, Google, Apple etc) tries so hard to prevent me from finding out. Eh? Apple's fairly clear about what Swift is doing in the background (which isn't much, really; boring ol' reference counting). This might apply more to Java, mind you. There are no secrets, but most people probably aren't going to investigate exactly what the JIT or GC are doing.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> and the fact that the vendor (Oracle, Google, Apple etc) tries so hard to prevent me from finding out. Are there any specific instances you’re thinking of here? Java, Go, and even Swift all are open source.
matthewmacleod 6y ago
I'm unease with the fact that I don't really know that my Swift program is doing in the background I don’t really understand your complaint here. The Swift runtime library is pretty limited - basically just allocation and reflection. The compiler spits out machine code that you can look at. Where is the “background” you are thinking of?

by s1k3s 6y ago

zepto 6y ago

Swift really isn’t doing anything “in the background”. There is no virtual machine, and nothing is happening other than your code and the libraries you use. It’s only high level from the point of view of the type system.

rsynnott 6y ago

> I'm unease with the fact that I don't really know that my Swift program is doing in the background, and more so, the fact that the vendor (Oracle, Google, Apple etc) tries so hard to prevent me from finding out. Eh? Apple's fairly clear about what Swift is doing in the background (which isn't much, really; boring ol' reference counting). This might apply more to Java, mind you. There are no secrets, but most people probably aren't going to investigate exactly what the JIT or GC are doing.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

> and the fact that the vendor (Oracle, Google, Apple etc) tries so hard to prevent me from finding out. Are there any specific instances you’re thinking of here? Java, Go, and even Swift all are open source.

matthewmacleod 6y ago

I'm unease with the fact that I don't really know that my Swift program is doing in the background I don’t really understand your complaint here. The Swift runtime library is pretty limited - basically just allocation and reflection. The compiler spits out machine code that you can look at. Where is the “background” you are thinking of?