> I don't know, I think debugging a perf issue in a large distributed system still falls under kind work to me, assuming you actually have a way to tell when it

> I don't know, I think debugging a perf issue in a large distributed system still falls under kind work to me, assuming you actually have a way to tell when it's fixed. Yes, you need a lot of knowledge, but the rules and outcomes are still clear. Compared to writing a novel or painting, it's very clear when you've reached success and it's hard to argue that you've been successful. The same goes for poker, you know when you won a hand. However winning a hand doesn't mean you learned something, similarly successfully debugging a large performance issue doesn't mean you learned something either. The learning we actually care about in software engineers isn't kind at all.