5 ms·

580 Covid-19 patients in Seoul waiting for hospital beds

35 points by neom 6y ago

nickff 6y ago
Especially interesting because RoK had been hailed as a success story in Covid containment. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-sout... https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01791-8 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... >Whilst early adoption of testing and contact tracing is likely to be important for South Korea’s successful outbreak control, other factors including regional implementation of strong social distancing measures likely also contributed. The high volume of testing and the low number of deaths suggest that South Korea experienced a small epidemic relative to other countries. Caution is needed in attempting to replicate the South Korean response in populations with larger more geographically widespread epidemics where finding, testing, and isolating cases that are linked to clusters may be more difficult.
- neom 6y ago
  That's exactly why I posted the link. It's interesting to me (as someone who lived in Seoul through the start of the pandemic) that they went from everything is fine to we have people waiting in ambulances and dying in hallways in a matter of weeks.
  - jasonlaramburu 6y ago
    I think it shows how quickly the virus can rebound when restrictions are eased.
- lsllc 6y ago
  Similar thing is happening in Germany too: https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-winning-covid-strategy-has-stopped-working-11608206996 https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-winning-covid-strategy... Vaccines can't come soon enough.
  - rasz 6y ago
    Did Germany Covid "strategy" ever work? compare the two: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/#graph-deaths-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/#gr... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#graph-deaths-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#g... Look at the March-September time span. For little background 15 March Poland closed its borders to foreigners. Emmanuel Macron was first to criticize this move, so was Ursula von der Leyen calling it insubordination and flagrant breaking of EU rules. Then one day later Germany closed up and all was good in the world! And a bit of "fun": German state run TV station ZDF Claus Kleber lecturing Poles about historical importance of open borders between Poland and Germany (face palm) on March 14, and a day later praising Germany for closing all of its borders: https://twitter.com/thomaskycia/status/1239671652755091456?lang=en https://twitter.com/thomaskycia/status/1239671652755091456?l...
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
Likewise with Japan right? I've said this from the beginning of the pandemic - elite technocrats have led from the start with hubris and moral surefootedness. Any opposition is dismissed as lunacy. And yet every solution is complete immiseration with little recognition of the tradeoffs and costs of the "solution". Which so far - hasn't solved much otherwise they wouldn't be treating it still as a disaster. How easily they destroy the livelihoods of everyone in hopes they're solving things. Well guess what - if there's any chance lockdowns and job deprivation doesn't help - you'll not only have deaths, but also economic (and spiritual) depression.
- yostrovs 6y ago
  Don't you worry. When the virus goes away, the technocrats will be patting themselves on the back for having succeeded in finally getting rid of it. And they will move on to save those left alive from economic deprivation. They will again succeed as they generate grim consequences they will again ignore.
- jasonlaramburu 6y ago
  What is your suggestion, pursue herd immunity and allow health systems to collapse and millions to die? It makes sense from first principles that staying in your home will reduce the chance of infection and transmission. The problem is no country, excepting maybe China, has actually enforced a stay at home order long enough to eliminate the virus.
  - gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
    My belief is that government cannot deprive people from living their lives especially without evidence of the effectiveness of lockdown. We’ve been fed this line that if we don’t do everything they say the sky will fall, yet so far that hasn’t happen and there’s no clear indication any of the mitigation efforts have worked. And when pressed it’s always “well we didn’t do enough last time.” Enough! Let people exercise caution. Eradication of a respiratory virus is like getting the army to tape leaves back on all the trees in the country. It’s the Don Quijote School of Public Health. Rich technocrats that don’t have their livelihoods, mental health, and families’ well-being on the line. And now in the US we’re being told that mortality doesn’t matter and now is the perfect time to practice race equity by distributing vaccines to black people first. Bullshit!
pkaye 6y ago
The whole country is reporting 1k cases a day yet the beds are filling up? Edit: According to Wikipedia, SK has a high hospital bet to population ratio compared to most western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_...
- nickff 6y ago
  Perhaps it's a sign that they're suffering disproportionately negative symptoms. South Korea appears to have startling high Vitamin D deficiency rates; that may be part of the problem (if other studies are to be believed). https://journals.lww.com/md-journal/Fulltext/2018/06290/Vitamin_D_status_in_South_Korean_population_.5.aspx https://journals.lww.com/md-journal/Fulltext/2018/06290/Vita...
bonkersinasia 6y ago
Sad thing here is most people in asia in the middle and upper class brackets (hate the terminology but it is what it is) are hypochondriacs, I seen behavior around health that would warrant mental confinement elsewhere, I imagine in this scenario many beds were occupied by people who could of handled it at home, sadly those that really needed it missed out.
amluto 6y ago
These numbers are bizarre. 1062 confirmed new cases (nationwide?) yesterday and 353 cases in Seoul from yesterday waiting for beds. Is South Korea attempting to put every single case in the hospital? Are they only reporting severe cases?
- Barrin92 6y ago
  As I understand it those 353 are all patients waiting for beds, not just covid patients., obviously other patients are still around too.

35 points by neom 6y ago

Especially interesting because RoK had been hailed as a success story in Covid containment. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-sout... https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12916-020-01791-8 https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s1291... >Whilst early adoption of testing and contact tracing is likely to be important for South Korea’s successful outbreak control, other factors including regional implementation of strong social distancing measures likely also contributed. The high volume of testing and the low number of deaths suggest that South Korea experienced a small epidemic relative to other countries. Caution is needed in attempting to replicate the South Korean response in populations with larger more geographically widespread epidemics where finding, testing, and isolating cases that are linked to clusters may be more difficult.

neom 6y ago
That's exactly why I posted the link. It's interesting to me (as someone who lived in Seoul through the start of the pandemic) that they went from everything is fine to we have people waiting in ambulances and dying in hallways in a matter of weeks.
- jasonlaramburu 6y ago
  I think it shows how quickly the virus can rebound when restrictions are eased.
lsllc 6y ago
Similar thing is happening in Germany too: https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-winning-covid-strategy-has-stopped-working-11608206996 https://www.wsj.com/articles/germanys-winning-covid-strategy... Vaccines can't come soon enough.
- rasz 6y ago
  Did Germany Covid "strategy" ever work? compare the two: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/#graph-deaths-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/#gr... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#graph-deaths-daily https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/#g... Look at the March-September time span. For little background 15 March Poland closed its borders to foreigners. Emmanuel Macron was first to criticize this move, so was Ursula von der Leyen calling it insubordination and flagrant breaking of EU rules. Then one day later Germany closed up and all was good in the world! And a bit of "fun": German state run TV station ZDF Claus Kleber lecturing Poles about historical importance of open borders between Poland and Germany (face palm) on March 14, and a day later praising Germany for closing all of its borders: https://twitter.com/thomaskycia/status/1239671652755091456?lang=en https://twitter.com/thomaskycia/status/1239671652755091456?l...

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

Likewise with Japan right? I've said this from the beginning of the pandemic - elite technocrats have led from the start with hubris and moral surefootedness. Any opposition is dismissed as lunacy. And yet every solution is complete immiseration with little recognition of the tradeoffs and costs of the "solution". Which so far - hasn't solved much otherwise they wouldn't be treating it still as a disaster. How easily they destroy the livelihoods of everyone in hopes they're solving things. Well guess what - if there's any chance lockdowns and job deprivation doesn't help - you'll not only have deaths, but also economic (and spiritual) depression.

yostrovs 6y ago
Don't you worry. When the virus goes away, the technocrats will be patting themselves on the back for having succeeded in finally getting rid of it. And they will move on to save those left alive from economic deprivation. They will again succeed as they generate grim consequences they will again ignore.
jasonlaramburu 6y ago
What is your suggestion, pursue herd immunity and allow health systems to collapse and millions to die? It makes sense from first principles that staying in your home will reduce the chance of infection and transmission. The problem is no country, excepting maybe China, has actually enforced a stay at home order long enough to eliminate the virus.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  My belief is that government cannot deprive people from living their lives especially without evidence of the effectiveness of lockdown. We’ve been fed this line that if we don’t do everything they say the sky will fall, yet so far that hasn’t happen and there’s no clear indication any of the mitigation efforts have worked. And when pressed it’s always “well we didn’t do enough last time.” Enough! Let people exercise caution. Eradication of a respiratory virus is like getting the army to tape leaves back on all the trees in the country. It’s the Don Quijote School of Public Health. Rich technocrats that don’t have their livelihoods, mental health, and families’ well-being on the line. And now in the US we’re being told that mortality doesn’t matter and now is the perfect time to practice race equity by distributing vaccines to black people first. Bullshit!

pkaye 6y ago

The whole country is reporting 1k cases a day yet the beds are filling up? Edit: According to Wikipedia, SK has a high hospital bet to population ratio compared to most western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_...

nickff 6y ago
Perhaps it's a sign that they're suffering disproportionately negative symptoms. South Korea appears to have startling high Vitamin D deficiency rates; that may be part of the problem (if other studies are to be believed). https://journals.lww.com/md-journal/Fulltext/2018/06290/Vitamin_D_status_in_South_Korean_population_.5.aspx https://journals.lww.com/md-journal/Fulltext/2018/06290/Vita...

bonkersinasia 6y ago

Sad thing here is most people in asia in the middle and upper class brackets (hate the terminology but it is what it is) are hypochondriacs, I seen behavior around health that would warrant mental confinement elsewhere, I imagine in this scenario many beds were occupied by people who could of handled it at home, sadly those that really needed it missed out.

amluto 6y ago

These numbers are bizarre. 1062 confirmed new cases (nationwide?) yesterday and 353 cases in Seoul from yesterday waiting for beds. Is South Korea attempting to put every single case in the hospital? Are they only reporting severe cases?

Barrin92 6y ago
As I understand it those 353 are all patients waiting for beds, not just covid patients., obviously other patients are still around too.