6 ms·

Yeah this pandemic has been described as the perfect middle ground for politicization, denialism, and just laissez-faire attitudes. Any more deadly (like Ebola

by jayrot 6y ago

Yeah this pandemic has been described as the perfect middle ground for politicization, denialism, and just laissez-faire attitudes. Any more deadly (like Ebola) it becomes incredibly scary and people likely do whatever it takes when they see people around them dropping like flies (especially in horrific ways). Any less deadly (basically the yearly flu) and it becomes easy to ignore and just becomes part of the background process. COVID is somewhere in between. Deadly enough that hundreds of thousands of people are dying unnecessarily. But can still feel a million miles away for so many people. This was not a good "training pandemic".

chrononaut 6y ago
> This was not a good "training pandemic". Was it not though? I assume you'd want a pandemic deadly enough for that convinces a majority of the populace that it's a serious event (to encourage downstream change to better prepare for a worse pandemic), while at the same time not causing people to drop like flies. As you stated, anything less severe would be taken less seriously. To have something to be taken more serious, it has to be more deadly. Despite the denialism we currently have, it seems to have made the world recognize the importance of preparation.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  MERS (which didn't reach the US) was probably a better "training pandemic" because of the high rate of symptoms early on in the infection. One could take drastic measures to isolate the infected and prevent many deaths.
  - nojokes 6y ago
    I would say that it was not, at least not for US because it did not reach it.
  - waterhouse 6y ago
    It didn't cause billions of people to gain experience in stocking up on supplies, learning how to live while locked down and the problems it entails, and wearing masks and taking other precautions. Therefore, it didn't serve as a training pandemic, except maybe for a small group. (It seems it did serve as training for vaccine developers, at least.)
- adewinter 6y ago
  "more deadly" does not necessarily mean more deaths in this case. If it kills like ebola more folks could take it seriously ultimately resulting in lower transmission and death rates.
  - the-pigeon 6y ago
    In particular, when COVID19 was first spreading but we knew about it back in February countries could've easily contact traced to flush it out and then quarantined all incoming travelers to keep it out. But most countries deemed those actions too extreme and economically damaging so instead let it come spread and do way more damage.
    - drcross 6y ago
      What you're proposing is highly experimental and probably wouldn't work. There's no single country in the world that has been able to restrain the sars2 virus despite spending millions trying to do so.
      - wahern 6y ago
        Other than Australia, China, New Zealand, and Vietnam, you mean? And China managed that after it had already spread widely domestically; the others were quick on their feet.
        sacks2k 6y ago
        China welded people into their homes, forced people into the hospital at gun point, and disappeared any doctor that actually wanted to warn the world about it back in December. There was also a recent document leaked that told us what many already suspected: they lied about their numbers. This isn't much of a surprise, since they stopped giving any updates pretty quickly into the pandemic. I have family that live in China. Government officials are fired if Covid spreads at all, which will only result in officials fudging the numbers to save their job. Vietnam used some of the same tactics and Australia is mostly desert and an island that is easy to control when it comes to borders. There was a rumor that Trump mentioned to a book author that he thought Covid was airborne..and people lost their shit and wanted him in jail. If he implemented the same tactics as China, he would be on trial for mass murder. The US is punished for actually telling the truth about Covid and testing. It seems like many people would much rather hear complete lies about the numbers to make themselves feel better. Trump warned us back in January and wanted to close the borders and the Democrats told us to hug an Asian person and go to Chinese new year celebrations. Taiwan warned the WHO back in December and was promptly dismissed. The mainstream US media silenced anyone that went against the WHO. Corrupt organizations like the WHO and the government of China are to blame. China caused this mess and covered it up for months.
UncleOxidant 6y ago
It was a good "training pandemic". Some countries did quite well (Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, New Zealand, etc.) and some countries did poorly (the US, Brazil, parts of Europe). Overall, being able to develop and deploy a vaccine within a calendar year seems like a success. Though a lack of inexpensive, quick, home administered tests seems like kind of a failure - they exist, but they haven't been backed by governments to the point where they can be manufactured in large numbers.
indolering 6y ago
> Any more deadly (like Ebola) ..... Ebola requires direct contact with bodily fluids, it's not nearly as easily transmittable as Covid. Note that seasonal flu levels are at historic lows [1, 2], despite Covid raging to the point where many US states' ICUs are filled to capacity. [1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-... [2]: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3
beamatronic 6y ago
Totally disagree about the last part. The more pain we suffer now, the longer the lesson will last.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  > The more pain we suffer now, the longer the lesson will last. More evidence of the pervasive political attitude that’s “science-based” but more like modern day fundamentalist fire-and-brimstone “anyone smiling wrought all the suffering in the world” Christianity.
- throwaway2245 6y ago
  That's not how psychology of pain works. I don't need to hold my hand in a fire to know not to touch fire again. Giving someone pain/suffering to teach them a lesson is just abuse.
  - beamatronic 6y ago
    You personally don’t... but look around... A lot of people are playing with fire
bob33212 6y ago
The more deadly a virus is the less likely you will have super spreaders. If the virus was 5x deadly you would probably also see 5x worse symptoms in most people. So instead of taking a bunch of DayQuil and going to the business meeting that person would be home feeling and looking like shit.

by jayrot 6y ago

chrononaut 6y ago

> This was not a good "training pandemic". Was it not though? I assume you'd want a pandemic deadly enough for that convinces a majority of the populace that it's a serious event (to encourage downstream change to better prepare for a worse pandemic), while at the same time not causing people to drop like flies. As you stated, anything less severe would be taken less seriously. To have something to be taken more serious, it has to be more deadly. Despite the denialism we currently have, it seems to have made the world recognize the importance of preparation.

aidenn0 6y ago
MERS (which didn't reach the US) was probably a better "training pandemic" because of the high rate of symptoms early on in the infection. One could take drastic measures to isolate the infected and prevent many deaths.
- nojokes 6y ago
  I would say that it was not, at least not for US because it did not reach it.
- waterhouse 6y ago
  It didn't cause billions of people to gain experience in stocking up on supplies, learning how to live while locked down and the problems it entails, and wearing masks and taking other precautions. Therefore, it didn't serve as a training pandemic, except maybe for a small group. (It seems it did serve as training for vaccine developers, at least.)
adewinter 6y ago
"more deadly" does not necessarily mean more deaths in this case. If it kills like ebola more folks could take it seriously ultimately resulting in lower transmission and death rates.
- the-pigeon 6y ago
  In particular, when COVID19 was first spreading but we knew about it back in February countries could've easily contact traced to flush it out and then quarantined all incoming travelers to keep it out. But most countries deemed those actions too extreme and economically damaging so instead let it come spread and do way more damage.
  - drcross 6y ago
    What you're proposing is highly experimental and probably wouldn't work. There's no single country in the world that has been able to restrain the sars2 virus despite spending millions trying to do so.
    - wahern 6y ago
      Other than Australia, China, New Zealand, and Vietnam, you mean? And China managed that after it had already spread widely domestically; the others were quick on their feet.
      - sacks2k 6y ago
        China welded people into their homes, forced people into the hospital at gun point, and disappeared any doctor that actually wanted to warn the world about it back in December. There was also a recent document leaked that told us what many already suspected: they lied about their numbers. This isn't much of a surprise, since they stopped giving any updates pretty quickly into the pandemic. I have family that live in China. Government officials are fired if Covid spreads at all, which will only result in officials fudging the numbers to save their job. Vietnam used some of the same tactics and Australia is mostly desert and an island that is easy to control when it comes to borders. There was a rumor that Trump mentioned to a book author that he thought Covid was airborne..and people lost their shit and wanted him in jail. If he implemented the same tactics as China, he would be on trial for mass murder. The US is punished for actually telling the truth about Covid and testing. It seems like many people would much rather hear complete lies about the numbers to make themselves feel better. Trump warned us back in January and wanted to close the borders and the Democrats told us to hug an Asian person and go to Chinese new year celebrations. Taiwan warned the WHO back in December and was promptly dismissed. The mainstream US media silenced anyone that went against the WHO. Corrupt organizations like the WHO and the government of China are to blame. China caused this mess and covered it up for months.

UncleOxidant 6y ago

It was a good "training pandemic". Some countries did quite well (Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam, New Zealand, etc.) and some countries did poorly (the US, Brazil, parts of Europe). Overall, being able to develop and deploy a vaccine within a calendar year seems like a success. Though a lack of inexpensive, quick, home administered tests seems like kind of a failure - they exist, but they haven't been backed by governments to the point where they can be manufactured in large numbers.

indolering 6y ago

> Any more deadly (like Ebola) ..... Ebola requires direct contact with bodily fluids, it's not nearly as easily transmittable as Covid. Note that seasonal flu levels are at historic lows [1, 2], despite Covid raging to the point where many US states' ICUs are filled to capacity. [1]: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-... [2]: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03519-3

beamatronic 6y ago

Totally disagree about the last part. The more pain we suffer now, the longer the lesson will last.

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
> The more pain we suffer now, the longer the lesson will last. More evidence of the pervasive political attitude that’s “science-based” but more like modern day fundamentalist fire-and-brimstone “anyone smiling wrought all the suffering in the world” Christianity.
throwaway2245 6y ago
That's not how psychology of pain works. I don't need to hold my hand in a fire to know not to touch fire again. Giving someone pain/suffering to teach them a lesson is just abuse.
- beamatronic 6y ago
  You personally don’t... but look around... A lot of people are playing with fire

bob33212 6y ago

The more deadly a virus is the less likely you will have super spreaders. If the virus was 5x deadly you would probably also see 5x worse symptoms in most people. So instead of taking a bunch of DayQuil and going to the business meeting that person would be home feeling and looking like shit.