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Austrian RFID (ISO 14443) company Legic has had a deal with Schlage for a while. And Swedish lock company Assa Abloy ($B conglomerate) also owns HID (and its nu

by 18pfsmt 15y ago

Austrian RFID (ISO 14443) company Legic has had a deal with Schlage for a while. And Swedish lock company Assa Abloy ($B conglomerate) also owns HID (and its numerous subsidiaries), which pretty much dominates RFID-based access control, and has had a solution in place for at least 3 years that I know of. Edit: Legic is Austrian, not German. Fixed. Edit 2: I was obsessed with this topic in '06-07 as the RFID startup I worked for struggled to maintain relevance as each use case for RFID proved pathetic ROIs vs existing solutions. I left when it was clear NFC/ payments was the only viable strategy and the startup was unwilling to drop the other verticals and pursue NFC (which is only now about to become viable).

rdl 15y ago
Yeah, the value is in having a decent API, easy self-install lockset for homes and small businesses; HID type stuff is almost always professionally installed, requires wiring to the door, etc. The legic/schlage system has really bad software, and the service is lame, too -- bad enough that I bought one and didn't install it on an exterior door. I like the hacker aesthetic of lockitron, but want the robustness of the pro stuff too. Although if they do NFC tag reads in the lockset, it wouldn't be too hard to work as a simple internet-programmable RFID lock.
- 18pfsmt 15y ago
  So, just to be clear: ISO 14443 is the RFID standard from which the NFC standard, ISO 18092, is basically derived. There are very minor differences. EDIT: The hope with NFC is that the phone can become a passive (non-power requiring) tag that can be read without internal power. As well, the hope is that it can read tags as well, though they are often referring to ISO 15693 and ISO 14443 (These are considered RFID standards) tags as far as readability (don't even get me started on ISO 14443A vs ISO14443B....Ugh).
- ccamrobertson 15y ago
  Thanks for the idea! I wouldn't be surprised if we move in this direction. People love their fobs, but provisioning for temporary access on the big access control systems is a pain with current panels. The big issue is, of course, hardware development cost in getting active NFC into the locksets. Some of the high end hotel & commercial locksets from Assa and Schlage are adding NFC capabilities, but I suspect the software is plagued by the same, traditional problems.
  - 18pfsmt 15y ago
    Just find a way to abstract all the nonsense. I'd be happy to help you to get test locks ( I have contacts at schlage and Assa Abloy). I don't want to bother you by email w/o permission, however.
    - ccamrobertson 15y ago
      I'd love to hear more about your NFC experience - feel free to drop me a line at cameron@lockitron.com.
    - cynix 15y ago
      Do Schlage or Assa Abloy have standalone battery-powered locks like the Lockitron that uses FeliCa or MIFARE cards?
      - rdl 15y ago
        There are a bunch. One of the most configurable is: http://www.gokeyless.com/product/1333/2/keyless-deadbolt-locks.php http://www.gokeyless.com/product/1333/2/keyless-deadbolt-loc... They use the iClass, which is the new HID thing. Once I get a home/office set up with a hardware lab later this month, I'm going to try to see if I can build something user-powered vs. battery which does this kind of thing (similar to how the Mas-Hamilton or Kaba-Mas X09 works) and speaks to iClass.
        rdl 15y ago
        like these: http://www.gokeyless.com/product/599/2/kaba-eplex-5700-electronic-card-lock http://www.gokeyless.com/product/599/2/kaba-eplex-5700-elect... Self powered by the user moving the handle.
        cynix 15y ago
        Thanks for the suggestions. I was hoping for something a bit more discreet on the outside of the door like the Lockitron, and uses FeliCa or MIFARE cards.
  - 15y ago
rdl 15y ago
Btw, I'd love to talk to you too (email me at ryan@venona.com if you'd like?) about RFID stuff; I worked for an RFID payment company back in 2003 (ViVoTech, implemented paypass and some loyalty card systems), and I've got some friends who want to set up a hardware lab.

by 18pfsmt 15y ago

rdl 15y ago

Yeah, the value is in having a decent API, easy self-install lockset for homes and small businesses; HID type stuff is almost always professionally installed, requires wiring to the door, etc. The legic/schlage system has really bad software, and the service is lame, too -- bad enough that I bought one and didn't install it on an exterior door. I like the hacker aesthetic of lockitron, but want the robustness of the pro stuff too. Although if they do NFC tag reads in the lockset, it wouldn't be too hard to work as a simple internet-programmable RFID lock.

18pfsmt 15y ago
So, just to be clear: ISO 14443 is the RFID standard from which the NFC standard, ISO 18092, is basically derived. There are very minor differences. EDIT: The hope with NFC is that the phone can become a passive (non-power requiring) tag that can be read without internal power. As well, the hope is that it can read tags as well, though they are often referring to ISO 15693 and ISO 14443 (These are considered RFID standards) tags as far as readability (don't even get me started on ISO 14443A vs ISO14443B....Ugh).
ccamrobertson 15y ago
Thanks for the idea! I wouldn't be surprised if we move in this direction. People love their fobs, but provisioning for temporary access on the big access control systems is a pain with current panels. The big issue is, of course, hardware development cost in getting active NFC into the locksets. Some of the high end hotel & commercial locksets from Assa and Schlage are adding NFC capabilities, but I suspect the software is plagued by the same, traditional problems.
- 18pfsmt 15y ago
  Just find a way to abstract all the nonsense. I'd be happy to help you to get test locks ( I have contacts at schlage and Assa Abloy). I don't want to bother you by email w/o permission, however.
  - ccamrobertson 15y ago
    I'd love to hear more about your NFC experience - feel free to drop me a line at cameron@lockitron.com.
  - cynix 15y ago
    Do Schlage or Assa Abloy have standalone battery-powered locks like the Lockitron that uses FeliCa or MIFARE cards?
    - rdl 15y ago
      There are a bunch. One of the most configurable is: http://www.gokeyless.com/product/1333/2/keyless-deadbolt-locks.php http://www.gokeyless.com/product/1333/2/keyless-deadbolt-loc... They use the iClass, which is the new HID thing. Once I get a home/office set up with a hardware lab later this month, I'm going to try to see if I can build something user-powered vs. battery which does this kind of thing (similar to how the Mas-Hamilton or Kaba-Mas X09 works) and speaks to iClass.
      - rdl 15y ago
        like these: http://www.gokeyless.com/product/599/2/kaba-eplex-5700-electronic-card-lock http://www.gokeyless.com/product/599/2/kaba-eplex-5700-elect... Self powered by the user moving the handle.
      - cynix 15y ago
        Thanks for the suggestions. I was hoping for something a bit more discreet on the outside of the door like the Lockitron, and uses FeliCa or MIFARE cards.
- 15y ago

rdl 15y ago

Btw, I'd love to talk to you too (email me at ryan@venona.com if you'd like?) about RFID stuff; I worked for an RFID payment company back in 2003 (ViVoTech, implemented paypass and some loyalty card systems), and I've got some friends who want to set up a hardware lab.