6 ms·

But the average household probably also isn't in 240k of debt unless they made very very poor financial choices.

abfan1127 6y ago
I went back and checked my records. It was 140K! oops. Anyways, here is my list. 85k in student loans 30k 401k loan 20k car loan 30k car loan
- alistairSH 6y ago
  So 46,000 in disposable income? That's a massive amount of money by normal-person standards. Hell, the fact that you had $30k in a 401k that you could borrow from yourself already makes you exceptional.
  - abfan1127 6y ago
    Yes. I had ~$500 payments for each of those every month. Luckily, once I got the first one paid off, I was able to roll that previous payment into the next one. 401k match is nice and I'd had been working for 5-6 years when I did this, so it was vested. I was in a deep hole, but I had a big shovel. I wish I hadn't dug the hole though. I encourage others to not dig holes either now that I've learned my lesson the hard way.
    - bonoboTP 6y ago
      How was this "the hard way"?
      - abfan1127 6y ago
        going into debt in the first place is the hard way.
        bonoboTP 6y ago
        People say "I learned it the hard way" when in the end they lost something for eternity, went through suffering etc. Like a recovered drug addict with permanent health damage or someone who turned on the path of crime and spent his youth behind bars or something. To me it seems like you had a pretty good life, took on some debt to live even more carelessly and then matured and calmed down and channeled more of your disposable income into paying back said debt. I don't see the hardship based on your comments so far.
        abfan1127 6y ago
        you know there are gray scales in life, right? Things can be hard without somebody dying. Marriage is hard. Raising children is hard. Those things are hard without dying, drug addiction, or other exceptionally hard circumstances. You mention some pretty heavy consequences to learn lessons. I'd say committing to something for 3-4 years that means telling yourself NO is pretty hard. Its not "survive being a Vietnam Prisoner of War" hard, but I never claimed it was.
        iJohnDoe 6y ago
        Well said reply.
        loco5niner 6y ago
        Actually, "learned it the hard way" refers to making the mistake yourself, rather than learning from someone else's mistake and avoiding making the mistake yourself at all. It's better to learn from others mistakes, than to "learn it the hard way". "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it." - Proverbs 22:3
deleted 6y ago
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ljm 6y ago
Or they're in the US and had to go to hospital for treatment?
theplague42 6y ago
Or student debt; a doctor going 200k into debt for med school probably isn't exactly in dire financial straits.
- abfan1127 6y ago
  I'd feel bad for a med student halfway through that gets sick. 100k of debt and no degree. yikes!
leetcrew 6y ago
this is correct, the median household has a (positive!) net worth of ~$120k. you have to go down to the tenth percentile and below to find households that actually have negative net worths. https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/#Selected_United_States_Household_Net_Worth_Percentiles_for_2020_and_2017 https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/#...
- theplague42 6y ago
  I do not think that "240k in debt" (he clarifies it was 140k in another comment) actually means owing 240k more than your total assets. As far as the median net worth, that's just someone most of the way through paying off their mortgage...
- 93po 6y ago
  I find it really hard to believe that only the tenth percentile has more student debt than savings. Virtually everyone I know in the 20s, and many in their 30s with advanced degrees, all have more debt than savings.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    that shouldn't be too surprising. the lower net worth buckets are made up disproportionately of younger people who a.) are still paying off student loans (if they took them), b.) have yet to reach their life peak income, and c.) haven't had as much time to accumulate savings. if you look at the breakdown by age on the page I linked, you'll see that median net worth increases almost monotonically by age bracket. you might also consider that there is probably some sampling bias in your social circle. I'd guess it disproportionately consists of people who have advanced degrees, possibly from more expensive schools. as a counter-anecdote, most of my friends got STEM degrees at a state university. the ones who took out loans paid them off completely within two years of graduation.

I went back and checked my records. It was 140K! oops. Anyways, here is my list. 85k in student loans 30k 401k loan 20k car loan 30k car loan

alistairSH 6y ago
So 46,000 in disposable income? That's a massive amount of money by normal-person standards. Hell, the fact that you had $30k in a 401k that you could borrow from yourself already makes you exceptional.
- abfan1127 6y ago
  Yes. I had ~$500 payments for each of those every month. Luckily, once I got the first one paid off, I was able to roll that previous payment into the next one. 401k match is nice and I'd had been working for 5-6 years when I did this, so it was vested. I was in a deep hole, but I had a big shovel. I wish I hadn't dug the hole though. I encourage others to not dig holes either now that I've learned my lesson the hard way.
  - bonoboTP 6y ago
    How was this "the hard way"?
    - abfan1127 6y ago
      going into debt in the first place is the hard way.
      - bonoboTP 6y ago
        People say "I learned it the hard way" when in the end they lost something for eternity, went through suffering etc. Like a recovered drug addict with permanent health damage or someone who turned on the path of crime and spent his youth behind bars or something. To me it seems like you had a pretty good life, took on some debt to live even more carelessly and then matured and calmed down and channeled more of your disposable income into paying back said debt. I don't see the hardship based on your comments so far.
        abfan1127 6y ago
        you know there are gray scales in life, right? Things can be hard without somebody dying. Marriage is hard. Raising children is hard. Those things are hard without dying, drug addiction, or other exceptionally hard circumstances. You mention some pretty heavy consequences to learn lessons. I'd say committing to something for 3-4 years that means telling yourself NO is pretty hard. Its not "survive being a Vietnam Prisoner of War" hard, but I never claimed it was.
        iJohnDoe 6y ago
        Well said reply.
        loco5niner 6y ago
        Actually, "learned it the hard way" refers to making the mistake yourself, rather than learning from someone else's mistake and avoiding making the mistake yourself at all. It's better to learn from others mistakes, than to "learn it the hard way". "The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it." - Proverbs 22:3

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ljm 6y ago

Or they're in the US and had to go to hospital for treatment?

theplague42 6y ago

Or student debt; a doctor going 200k into debt for med school probably isn't exactly in dire financial straits.

abfan1127 6y ago
I'd feel bad for a med student halfway through that gets sick. 100k of debt and no degree. yikes!

leetcrew 6y ago

this is correct, the median household has a (positive!) net worth of ~$120k. you have to go down to the tenth percentile and below to find households that actually have negative net worths. https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/#Selected_United_States_Household_Net_Worth_Percentiles_for_2020_and_2017 https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/#...

theplague42 6y ago
I do not think that "240k in debt" (he clarifies it was 140k in another comment) actually means owing 240k more than your total assets. As far as the median net worth, that's just someone most of the way through paying off their mortgage...
93po 6y ago
I find it really hard to believe that only the tenth percentile has more student debt than savings. Virtually everyone I know in the 20s, and many in their 30s with advanced degrees, all have more debt than savings.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  that shouldn't be too surprising. the lower net worth buckets are made up disproportionately of younger people who a.) are still paying off student loans (if they took them), b.) have yet to reach their life peak income, and c.) haven't had as much time to accumulate savings. if you look at the breakdown by age on the page I linked, you'll see that median net worth increases almost monotonically by age bracket. you might also consider that there is probably some sampling bias in your social circle. I'd guess it disproportionately consists of people who have advanced degrees, possibly from more expensive schools. as a counter-anecdote, most of my friends got STEM degrees at a state university. the ones who took out loans paid them off completely within two years of graduation.