4 ms·

For anyone who is wondering, the school he listed (Western Governors University) is unfortunately not ABET accredited as far as I can tell.

by D13Fd 6y ago

NullPrefix 6y ago
This should be at the top. What's the point of that paper if the issuer is not accredited?
- SilasX 6y ago
  I assume if you're just interested in learning. (Not trying to be sarcastic or trollish -- I'm looking for stuff that optimizes more for personal enlightenment than a credential, and I accept that both targets are valid to pursue.) With that said, even for that use case, it feels clickbaity to label it "I got a CS degree" rather than "I learned the content of a CS degree".
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "I'm looking for stuff that optimizes more for personal enlightenment than a credential" The point of accreditation is to assure that various minimum standards are met by the educational institution. (Whether that works or not is a different discussion.) Lack of normal accreditation is usually a sign of a diploma mill and, more importantly, that the student will not be getting their money's worth either in terms of a credential or personal enlightenment.
- TameAntelope 6y ago
  The article says the school is accredited by a different group.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  The school may be accredited but not the degree. This is the case for CS degrees from several UC schools including Berkley. My CS degree from a slightly less prestigious UC is not accredited but no one has ever said anything about it.
- clavalle 6y ago
  It's not ABET accredited, but it is regionally accredited -- which all of the big schools are. That means credits earned at WGU will generally transfer to a traditional school. There are a lot of top schools that are regionally accredited in their CS department but not ABET. ABET has been for more traditional engineering like Chemical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering and the like. Even for those schools that do have their CS departments ABET accredited, it's a new thing. The school I went to, University of Texas at Austin, for example, only became ABET accredited in CS in 2017. Whereas the ChE was ABET accredited in the 1930's.
dumbfounder 6y ago
I assume this matters if they want to go to grad school, but does it matter for any other reason? I think employers attribute value to programs they have heard of, whether it is ABET or not is not something I have ever considered.
- D13Fd 6y ago
  One example is taking the patent bar in the United States. A CS degree from this school cannot be used for that purpose. I'm not saying it matters to employers (I don't know either way) and I expect its regional accreditation may be fine for some purposes.
- PenguinCoder 6y ago
  There plenty of people getting a BS from WGU that go on to Master level degrees at other universities. I know quite a few of them personally. Going to WGU for a BS and then a different university for a Masters, is quite possible and not unheard of.
  - jacurtis 6y ago
    This is actually what my sister did. She got a WGU Bachelors Degree and then went on to get a Master's Degree from a more recognizable college. She shaved 3-4 years off her full masters program that way (if you consider the time spent for the Bachelors degree in that process) and at the end of the day she is applying on her resume that she has a Master's from a recognizable university name that raises eye brows. I am currently looking at doing the same. If you do the math, it is possible to get a WGU Bachelors Degree + Full 2-Year Master's Degree program from a "recognizable" school for less money and in less time than most people are spending to get a bachelors degree from an unrecognizable community college.\ That's a life hack for anyone looking for Master's programs.
- 0xffff2 6y ago
  The US government is very big on requiring ABET accredited degrees for engineering. I've never gotten a straight answer on whether this is the case for CS or not.
cortezdecoy 6y ago
I believe it is regionally accredited.
miguelrochefort 6y ago
You're correct. The path I took is not without compromises: - WGU is not ABET accredited. - WGU is not as rigorous as other universities. - WGU is not as prestigious as other universities. - WGU gives all graduates the same 3.0 GPA. I probably should point them out in my post. That said, I still believe WGU was the right choice given my circumstances. I don't value these things enough to justify taking 12 to 16 times longer to graduate.
- PenguinCoder 6y ago
  I agree with all of your points. Thanks for sharing your experience and especially the break down on the time. Do you plan on going for a Masters, either elsewhere or at WGU ?
- fastball 6y ago
  Ew everyone gets 3.0 GPA? What's the point of that? Are all of the exams pass/fail?
  - miguelrochefort 6y ago
    I think it's a combination of: * The school targets students with previous experience, which transfer credits that have no influence on the GPA. * The school uses technical certifications (e.g., Oracle Oracle Database SQL 1Z0-07) as a final assessment for some courses, which don't cleanly map to a GPA. * The school doesn't grade project-based courses (PAs), and instead requires students to resubmit their project until 100% of the rubric is met. It's basically pass/fail. They won't even show students their grade on final exams (although Chrome's DevTools can reveal them).
kevindong 6y ago
ABET accreditation doesn't mean much for CS however. For example, none of these schools are ABET accredited for CS: - UC Berkeley - CMU - Stanford - Cornell - University of Washington - Caltech - Princeton https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-search?disciplines=19&degreeLevels=B&countries=US https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-search?disciplines=19&d...
- nwsm 6y ago
  Add WGU to that list and tell me which one doesn't belong.
  - kevindong 6y ago
    I'm not arguing for/against WGU. My argument is that ABET accreditation isn't relevant to how "good" a CS program is. It does establish a minimum baseline, but lacking it just means you have to determine the program's value in other ways.
    - 0xffff2 6y ago
      I think it is relevant though. Most of the mid-level schools I looked at were ABET accredited. Going unaccredited in CS seems to be a thing that you can only get away with if you have so much or so little name recognition that it doesn't matter.
      - the_only_law 6y ago
        Isn’t the point of ABET mostly so that you can obtain engineering licenses. I don’t imagine most software development jobs would even bother looking up if your program was accredited because you aren’t going to need a license.
        0xffff2 6y ago
        The US government for one requires ABET accreditation for all engineering degrees regardless of licensing requirements for the job. I'm currently a government contractor who is hoping to eventually convert. It's not yet clear to me how much the lack of ABET accreditation on my UC CS degree is going to hurt me.

For anyone who is wondering, the school he listed (Western Governors University) is unfortunately not ABET accredited as far as I can tell.

by D13Fd 6y ago

For anyone who is wondering, the school he listed (Western Governors University) is unfortunately not ABET accredited as far as I can tell.

NullPrefix 6y ago

This should be at the top. What's the point of that paper if the issuer is not accredited?

SilasX 6y ago
I assume if you're just interested in learning. (Not trying to be sarcastic or trollish -- I'm looking for stuff that optimizes more for personal enlightenment than a credential, and I accept that both targets are valid to pursue.) With that said, even for that use case, it feels clickbaity to label it "I got a CS degree" rather than "I learned the content of a CS degree".
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "I'm looking for stuff that optimizes more for personal enlightenment than a credential" The point of accreditation is to assure that various minimum standards are met by the educational institution. (Whether that works or not is a different discussion.) Lack of normal accreditation is usually a sign of a diploma mill and, more importantly, that the student will not be getting their money's worth either in terms of a credential or personal enlightenment.
TameAntelope 6y ago
The article says the school is accredited by a different group.
0xffff2 6y ago
The school may be accredited but not the degree. This is the case for CS degrees from several UC schools including Berkley. My CS degree from a slightly less prestigious UC is not accredited but no one has ever said anything about it.
clavalle 6y ago
It's not ABET accredited, but it is regionally accredited -- which all of the big schools are. That means credits earned at WGU will generally transfer to a traditional school. There are a lot of top schools that are regionally accredited in their CS department but not ABET. ABET has been for more traditional engineering like Chemical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering and the like. Even for those schools that do have their CS departments ABET accredited, it's a new thing. The school I went to, University of Texas at Austin, for example, only became ABET accredited in CS in 2017. Whereas the ChE was ABET accredited in the 1930's.

dumbfounder 6y ago

I assume this matters if they want to go to grad school, but does it matter for any other reason? I think employers attribute value to programs they have heard of, whether it is ABET or not is not something I have ever considered.

D13Fd 6y ago
One example is taking the patent bar in the United States. A CS degree from this school cannot be used for that purpose. I'm not saying it matters to employers (I don't know either way) and I expect its regional accreditation may be fine for some purposes.
PenguinCoder 6y ago
There plenty of people getting a BS from WGU that go on to Master level degrees at other universities. I know quite a few of them personally. Going to WGU for a BS and then a different university for a Masters, is quite possible and not unheard of.
- jacurtis 6y ago
  This is actually what my sister did. She got a WGU Bachelors Degree and then went on to get a Master's Degree from a more recognizable college. She shaved 3-4 years off her full masters program that way (if you consider the time spent for the Bachelors degree in that process) and at the end of the day she is applying on her resume that she has a Master's from a recognizable university name that raises eye brows. I am currently looking at doing the same. If you do the math, it is possible to get a WGU Bachelors Degree + Full 2-Year Master's Degree program from a "recognizable" school for less money and in less time than most people are spending to get a bachelors degree from an unrecognizable community college.\ That's a life hack for anyone looking for Master's programs.
0xffff2 6y ago
The US government is very big on requiring ABET accredited degrees for engineering. I've never gotten a straight answer on whether this is the case for CS or not.

cortezdecoy 6y ago

I believe it is regionally accredited.

miguelrochefort 6y ago

You're correct. The path I took is not without compromises: - WGU is not ABET accredited. - WGU is not as rigorous as other universities. - WGU is not as prestigious as other universities. - WGU gives all graduates the same 3.0 GPA. I probably should point them out in my post. That said, I still believe WGU was the right choice given my circumstances. I don't value these things enough to justify taking 12 to 16 times longer to graduate.

PenguinCoder 6y ago
I agree with all of your points. Thanks for sharing your experience and especially the break down on the time. Do you plan on going for a Masters, either elsewhere or at WGU ?
fastball 6y ago
Ew everyone gets 3.0 GPA? What's the point of that? Are all of the exams pass/fail?
- miguelrochefort 6y ago
  I think it's a combination of: * The school targets students with previous experience, which transfer credits that have no influence on the GPA. * The school uses technical certifications (e.g., Oracle Oracle Database SQL 1Z0-07) as a final assessment for some courses, which don't cleanly map to a GPA. * The school doesn't grade project-based courses (PAs), and instead requires students to resubmit their project until 100% of the rubric is met. It's basically pass/fail. They won't even show students their grade on final exams (although Chrome's DevTools can reveal them).

kevindong 6y ago

ABET accreditation doesn't mean much for CS however. For example, none of these schools are ABET accredited for CS: - UC Berkeley - CMU - Stanford - Cornell - University of Washington - Caltech - Princeton https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-search?disciplines=19&degreeLevels=B&countries=US https://amspub.abet.org/aps/category-search?disciplines=19&d...

nwsm 6y ago
Add WGU to that list and tell me which one doesn't belong.
- kevindong 6y ago
  I'm not arguing for/against WGU. My argument is that ABET accreditation isn't relevant to how "good" a CS program is. It does establish a minimum baseline, but lacking it just means you have to determine the program's value in other ways.
  - 0xffff2 6y ago
    I think it is relevant though. Most of the mid-level schools I looked at were ABET accredited. Going unaccredited in CS seems to be a thing that you can only get away with if you have so much or so little name recognition that it doesn't matter.
    - the_only_law 6y ago
      Isn’t the point of ABET mostly so that you can obtain engineering licenses. I don’t imagine most software development jobs would even bother looking up if your program was accredited because you aren’t going to need a license.
      - 0xffff2 6y ago
        The US government for one requires ABET accreditation for all engineering degrees regardless of licensing requirements for the job. I'm currently a government contractor who is hoping to eventually convert. It's not yet clear to me how much the lack of ABET accreditation on my UC CS degree is going to hurt me.