5 ms·

These things look awesome, but are pretty expensive, still. I'd love to put an ARM server in my homelab, but the price range between 100$ (RPi & Co) and 10000$

These things look awesome, but are pretty expensive, still. I'd love to put an ARM server in my homelab, but the price range between 100$ (RPi & Co) and 10000$ (enterprise server) seems pretty empty right now :/

xuki 6y ago
Just wait for virtualization on M1 Mac.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  That’s useful if you’re not averse to MacOS. Given that Apple now deploys backdoors by default for their own apps which will always inevitably result in exploits, and turning their back on decades of computing history with no “legacy” < 64bit support, I find myself struggling with that choice. Heck, my 2015 MBP is still running Mojave (and thankfully still receiving software updates)
  - _ph_ 6y ago
    The removing of 32bit support in Catalina was definitely a bad thing for many, who are using x86-Macs, but for someone interesting in an ARM-based Mac, shouldn't play a role.
    - corty 6y ago
      > shouldn't play a role. Until it does. Some future MacOS may need support of some new architecture feature, then it'll be "better buy an Arm13 mac if you want to run MacOS 2023!". Apple doesn't have a very good track record about supporting their own old hardware in new MacOS releases. Several iMacs and MacMinis come to mind. Their past behaviour sets a benchmark for their future behaviour, and since there are no reliable assurances about their support roadmap, I'd think carefully...
      - mbreese 6y ago
        What? Big Sur supports hardware that is at least 7 years old. Catalina goes back to 2012 (and still gets security updates). For an OS vendor that has yearly updates, they do a pretty good job of supporting older hardware. https://eshop.macsales.com/guides/Mac_OS_X_Compatibility https://eshop.macsales.com/guides/Mac_OS_X_Compatibility
        monocasa 6y ago
        The PowerPC->Intel transition led to an OSX release that was Intel only just three years after the first Intel hardware was released. Apple's known for cutting compatibility when they have some goal that's served by it, or it's viewed as an albatross by their product side.
        mbreese 6y ago
        True. It looks like the last PPC Macs were released in 2005 and were available through 2006 [1]. The last OS that supported them was Leopard, which got Security updates though 2009 [2]. [1] https://everymac.com/systems/by_timeline/ultimate-mac-timeline.html https://everymac.com/systems/by_timeline/ultimate-mac-timeli... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard#Release_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard#Release_histo...
        Xylakant 6y ago
        Even better: Based on apples history High Sierra probably EOLs January 2021 and supports hardware all the way back to 2010. So that's a decade of hardware support which is pretty good.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > Given that Apple now deploys backdoors by default for their own apps which will always inevitably result in exploits You're talking about the certificate revocation check that bypasses VPNs? That one is to prevent malware from being able to hijack and block certificate checks.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      No, I’m talking about regular Apple apps that bypass local software firewalls. See this HN thread from ~2 months ago for an introduction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24838816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24838816 This is new behaviour to Big Sur, breaking existing tooling and providing a back door for Apple, and anyone who can exploit it like this guy https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1327726496203476992 https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1327726496203476992
bluGill 6y ago
There are several multi-board RPi&Co solutions. Pine64 has some interesting offerings in this space.
- thinkmassive 6y ago
  TuringPi 2 (for RPi CM4) https://turingpi.com/ https://turingpi.com/ Pine64 SOPINE Clusterboard https://www.pine64.org/clusterboard/ https://www.pine64.org/clusterboard/
- walrus01 6y ago
  The problem with most of these is availability of a Linux operating system image that is as mature, and close to 'stock' debian as raspbian is. Usually it's some two year old version of Ubuntu that's been cobbled together by the vendor.
  - qchris 6y ago
    I believe there's been some work in the this space by the Armbian[1] community, which is aiming to create a unified base distro for a wide range of ARM single-board computers including Odroid, Pine64, etc. [1] https://www.armbian.com/ https://www.armbian.com/
loudmax 6y ago
I built my home compute cluster out of four Odroid N2. These are $80 ARM based single board computers (SBC's), similar to Raspberry Pi's. You can bridge the gap between high and low ends buy buying low end and scaling horizontally. The troublesome piece is, of course, the horizontal scaling. For a cluster of ARM CPUs to be worthwhile, you need a job that can be parallelized, but not so massively parallel that it already runs on a GPU. Even so, I think there's a lot of potential for these low end ARM devices. Ultimately, their impact on x86 could be the same as what x86 did to the previous generation of mini computers.
SoapSeller 6y ago
You can get SolidRun HoneyComb[0] for ~$1000, it has 16 cores with supposedly reasonable performance. [0] https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/honeycomb-workstation/ https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/h...
- cameron_b 6y ago
  That puppy is on my wish list if tax refunds are a thing this spring.
- floatboth 6y ago
  Reasonable, but not exciting. Cortex-A72 is quite old by now. Just compare EC2 a1 instances vs. the newer ones.
  - nine_k 6y ago
    Just compare how much such an exciting AWS instance would cost in a month. You can't compare it to owning a whole machine for several years, having bought it once.
- Sebb767 6y ago
  This looks what I was searching for. Thank you!
- walrus01 6y ago
  For a thousand bucks of CPU, motherboard and RAM, anyone with a modicum of clue building x86-64 industry standard PC hardware could set up something based on Ryzen that runs circles around that. Probably at least quadruple the performance in any integer or floating point benchmarks. $659 ryzen 5800X $250 motherboard
Someone 6y ago
Do I read the table on https://www.anandtech.com/show/16315/the-ampere-altra-review/9 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16315/the-ampere-altra-review... incorrectly? To me, it says they have a system with 32 CPUs at 1.7 GHz for $800, and a whole range between $2,200 and $4,050.
- privong 6y ago
  I think that's the processor only? I'm basing that off the paragraph after the table, which says: > AMD’s EPYC 7742 which still comes in at $6950 A couple quick searches (Amazon, Newegg) show people selling the CPU-only for this price. Since that's the price they're comparing to the table, I think the table prices are for the ARM CPU only.
  - Someone 6y ago
    Thanks! I already found $800 cheapish, but didn’t consider it a price for just the CPU; my mind isn’t used to see server prices, it seems.
walrus01 6y ago
I'll believe these are a real viable thing for ordinary open source Linux/BSD developers, when I can go buy a $150 motherboard and a $250 CPU from newegg, that have performance anywhere NEAR what I can do with the equivalent priced Ryzen. Or even some Intel 10th/11th generation core-whatever i5/i7 CPU.
- SlipperySlope 6y ago
  Good point, I've been looking at NewEgg and Amazon retail ever since the M1, because I need Ubuntu, not Apple. My preference is for a mini form factor without a fan that I can run headless in the office lab.
Alupis 6y ago
If you are just building a home lab server (ie. don't need a video card, well... usually), you can build a surprisingly powerful, inexpensive system. Probably in the $500-$1000 range depending on CPU choice.
MikeKusold 6y ago
Just like with xeon server hardware, you will need to wait 4-6 years for companies to retire their fleets. r730s are currently reasonably priced (under $1K) but those were released new in 2014. R740s are still a few thousand dollars.
- alexhutcheson 6y ago
  Why would you want a 6-year-old server chip? By that point I'd expect a mid-tier consumer chip to have better performance/watt, and much better support for peripherals.

xuki 6y ago

Just wait for virtualization on M1 Mac.

oarsinsync 6y ago
That’s useful if you’re not averse to MacOS. Given that Apple now deploys backdoors by default for their own apps which will always inevitably result in exploits, and turning their back on decades of computing history with no “legacy” < 64bit support, I find myself struggling with that choice. Heck, my 2015 MBP is still running Mojave (and thankfully still receiving software updates)
- _ph_ 6y ago
  The removing of 32bit support in Catalina was definitely a bad thing for many, who are using x86-Macs, but for someone interesting in an ARM-based Mac, shouldn't play a role.
  - corty 6y ago
    > shouldn't play a role. Until it does. Some future MacOS may need support of some new architecture feature, then it'll be "better buy an Arm13 mac if you want to run MacOS 2023!". Apple doesn't have a very good track record about supporting their own old hardware in new MacOS releases. Several iMacs and MacMinis come to mind. Their past behaviour sets a benchmark for their future behaviour, and since there are no reliable assurances about their support roadmap, I'd think carefully...
    - mbreese 6y ago
      What? Big Sur supports hardware that is at least 7 years old. Catalina goes back to 2012 (and still gets security updates). For an OS vendor that has yearly updates, they do a pretty good job of supporting older hardware. https://eshop.macsales.com/guides/Mac_OS_X_Compatibility https://eshop.macsales.com/guides/Mac_OS_X_Compatibility
      - monocasa 6y ago
        The PowerPC->Intel transition led to an OSX release that was Intel only just three years after the first Intel hardware was released. Apple's known for cutting compatibility when they have some goal that's served by it, or it's viewed as an albatross by their product side.
        mbreese 6y ago
        True. It looks like the last PPC Macs were released in 2005 and were available through 2006 [1]. The last OS that supported them was Leopard, which got Security updates though 2009 [2]. [1] https://everymac.com/systems/by_timeline/ultimate-mac-timeline.html https://everymac.com/systems/by_timeline/ultimate-mac-timeli... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard#Release_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard#Release_histo...
      - Xylakant 6y ago
        Even better: Based on apples history High Sierra probably EOLs January 2021 and supports hardware all the way back to 2010. So that's a decade of hardware support which is pretty good.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Given that Apple now deploys backdoors by default for their own apps which will always inevitably result in exploits You're talking about the certificate revocation check that bypasses VPNs? That one is to prevent malware from being able to hijack and block certificate checks.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    No, I’m talking about regular Apple apps that bypass local software firewalls. See this HN thread from ~2 months ago for an introduction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24838816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24838816 This is new behaviour to Big Sur, breaking existing tooling and providing a back door for Apple, and anyone who can exploit it like this guy https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1327726496203476992 https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1327726496203476992

bluGill 6y ago

There are several multi-board RPi&Co solutions. Pine64 has some interesting offerings in this space.

thinkmassive 6y ago
TuringPi 2 (for RPi CM4) https://turingpi.com/ https://turingpi.com/ Pine64 SOPINE Clusterboard https://www.pine64.org/clusterboard/ https://www.pine64.org/clusterboard/
walrus01 6y ago
The problem with most of these is availability of a Linux operating system image that is as mature, and close to 'stock' debian as raspbian is. Usually it's some two year old version of Ubuntu that's been cobbled together by the vendor.
- qchris 6y ago
  I believe there's been some work in the this space by the Armbian[1] community, which is aiming to create a unified base distro for a wide range of ARM single-board computers including Odroid, Pine64, etc. [1] https://www.armbian.com/ https://www.armbian.com/

loudmax 6y ago

I built my home compute cluster out of four Odroid N2. These are $80 ARM based single board computers (SBC's), similar to Raspberry Pi's. You can bridge the gap between high and low ends buy buying low end and scaling horizontally. The troublesome piece is, of course, the horizontal scaling. For a cluster of ARM CPUs to be worthwhile, you need a job that can be parallelized, but not so massively parallel that it already runs on a GPU. Even so, I think there's a lot of potential for these low end ARM devices. Ultimately, their impact on x86 could be the same as what x86 did to the previous generation of mini computers.

SoapSeller 6y ago

You can get SolidRun HoneyComb[0] for ~$1000, it has 16 cores with supposedly reasonable performance. [0] https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/honeycomb-workstation/ https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/h...

cameron_b 6y ago
That puppy is on my wish list if tax refunds are a thing this spring.
floatboth 6y ago
Reasonable, but not exciting. Cortex-A72 is quite old by now. Just compare EC2 a1 instances vs. the newer ones.
- nine_k 6y ago
  Just compare how much such an exciting AWS instance would cost in a month. You can't compare it to owning a whole machine for several years, having bought it once.
Sebb767 6y ago
This looks what I was searching for. Thank you!
walrus01 6y ago
For a thousand bucks of CPU, motherboard and RAM, anyone with a modicum of clue building x86-64 industry standard PC hardware could set up something based on Ryzen that runs circles around that. Probably at least quadruple the performance in any integer or floating point benchmarks. $659 ryzen 5800X $250 motherboard

Someone 6y ago

Do I read the table on https://www.anandtech.com/show/16315/the-ampere-altra-review/9 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16315/the-ampere-altra-review... incorrectly? To me, it says they have a system with 32 CPUs at 1.7 GHz for $800, and a whole range between $2,200 and $4,050.

privong 6y ago
I think that's the processor only? I'm basing that off the paragraph after the table, which says: > AMD’s EPYC 7742 which still comes in at $6950 A couple quick searches (Amazon, Newegg) show people selling the CPU-only for this price. Since that's the price they're comparing to the table, I think the table prices are for the ARM CPU only.
- Someone 6y ago
  Thanks! I already found $800 cheapish, but didn’t consider it a price for just the CPU; my mind isn’t used to see server prices, it seems.

walrus01 6y ago

I'll believe these are a real viable thing for ordinary open source Linux/BSD developers, when I can go buy a $150 motherboard and a $250 CPU from newegg, that have performance anywhere NEAR what I can do with the equivalent priced Ryzen. Or even some Intel 10th/11th generation core-whatever i5/i7 CPU.

SlipperySlope 6y ago
Good point, I've been looking at NewEgg and Amazon retail ever since the M1, because I need Ubuntu, not Apple. My preference is for a mini form factor without a fan that I can run headless in the office lab.

Alupis 6y ago

If you are just building a home lab server (ie. don't need a video card, well... usually), you can build a surprisingly powerful, inexpensive system. Probably in the $500-$1000 range depending on CPU choice.

MikeKusold 6y ago

Just like with xeon server hardware, you will need to wait 4-6 years for companies to retire their fleets. r730s are currently reasonably priced (under $1K) but those were released new in 2014. R740s are still a few thousand dollars.

alexhutcheson 6y ago
Why would you want a 6-year-old server chip? By that point I'd expect a mid-tier consumer chip to have better performance/watt, and much better support for peripherals.