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Does anyone else have a hard time putting up with flying (pre-pandemic) recently? 20 years ago I used to fly without any issue but since they've made the seats

by vecinu 6y ago

Does anyone else have a hard time putting up with flying (pre-pandemic) recently? 20 years ago I used to fly without any issue but since they've made the seats smaller, the food somehow got worse and the TSA pre-boarding eats another hour of time I wouldn't have spent in the airport. I recently started trying to fly business class to actually arrive at my destination like a functioning human being and not anxious/sick to my stomach. Unfortunately it's prohibitively expensive. Add in the toxic fumes and I'm not surprised how bad I feel after a transcontinental flight.

hourislate 6y ago
The reason flying was easier 10-15 years ago was because passenger loads increased by 50% while airlines seat capacity remained at 2005 levels. https://www.statista.com/statistics/564717/airline-industry-passenger-traffic-globally/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/564717/airline-industry-... Airlines learned from previous mistakes and basically would not add any capacity until load factors were incredibly high and they knew they could easily fill another flight. Very rarely would someone get bumped 10 plus years ago but in the last few years it was common practice. The planes were stuffed full where even the very back rows typically left open for flight attendants were filled. I used to take at least one trip every week for 20 years and it wasn't so bad. After 911 it became worse but the flight was still ok. The last 3-4 years have been absolutely terrible. Even 1st/Business class was a joke and always oversold. I developed anxiety every time I had to fly simply because of the nightmare of getting through the lines (TSA/Customs/DHS), fighting the crowds, no where to even sit, dirty planes, etc. Flying became like riding in a cattle car. I still fly about once a month and ever since the pandemic it's a lot more pleasant. My last flight had over 100 empty seats and absolutely no lines or people at the airport. Reminded my of a flight I once took to YYZ from DFW on a 727 in 91. I and two more guys were the only passengers on the whole plane, 2 in coach and the other in 1st. Three of us on the whole plane. Felt like a Rock Star on my own private jet.... I'm confident that flying will become miserable again. In another year I expect everything will be back to shit/normal.
tootie 6y ago
In the two years pre pandemic I had to do a ton of business travel. I could expense whatever I needed, fly biz class for international. It still started to wear on me. I think it's just getting older. It's more emotional effort to be away from home. I started feeling some anxiety just about being trapped in a flying tube and not being able to leave. Also because seats are narrower and I'm wider.
- bonestamp2 6y ago
  For a couple years I was taking 4 flights/week. I absolutely hate flying now and the conclusion I came to was that travel has a lot of anxieties, and air travel in particular involves even more. There are so many variables out of your control that have to go your way to be successful.
rubicon33 6y ago
You're not alone. I used to actually really enjoy flying but the experience has severely degraded over the years. My chief complaints are insanely tight seat density, shitty food / flight amenities, and a terrible boarding process.
echelon 6y ago
The US needs a more substantial train system. Sleeper cars are refreshing and train travel is extremely enjoyable.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Sleeper cars are better than an airplane seat, but I wouldn't call them refreshing. The beds are narrow, firm, heat/AC is a crapshoot, and train noises and movement can keep you awake.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    For any serious work in crowded/noisy places, bring earplugs. I used to complete my Chicago commute (train/foot) using cheap , disposable 30db earplugs.
  - octoberfranklin 6y ago
    Well they should be at least as good as international first class flights for the part where you're lying down asleep (or trying to sleep).
- TylerE 6y ago
  There just isn't the population density in about 90% of the US.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    As compared to France?
    - TylerE 6y ago
      France is 1/3rd higher, and it's centered in relatively fewer big cities - Paris alone is one quarter of the total population of France - no area in the US comes close. In the US it's worse than the density alone would suggest... because 80% of the country right in the middle geographically has a density that is for all intents and purposes zero.
gen220 6y ago
We travel around 300 miles pretty regularly to visit family. Over the years we’ve tried almost every form of transportation: train, renting a car, flying, dirt cheap buses, very fancy buses. Bang for the buck, I’d say our preference became car, train, fancy bus, flying, bad bus. They all pretty much take the same time, door to door, because the airports are not particularly accessible from our starting point and destination. The key factors were autonomy and punctuality. If the train or bus hit traffic or broke down, you were totally screwed. Sometimes for hours. If the car hit traffic, we stopped for dinner. The plane is the most expensive, and provides some of the worst experiences of the three. They were rarely late, but really made you suffer for the price. I never thought I’d become a car person, and yet here I am!
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  What's a fancy bus? Is that like the sawed-off schoolbus?
  - gen220 6y ago
    It’s basically a greyhound bus with 1/2 the seats, a complimentary hot meal, functional air conditioning, and comfortable chairs. They charge a premium, but you bring as many bags as you like and the pickup locations are usually less chaotic (a hotel rather than a regional mass transit center). They still suffer from traffic and the movement of the vehicle (trains are way better in this dimension). They’re kind of like what I imagine flying in the 80s was like, in terms of the amenities and milieu of customers. Except with near constant turbulence.
    - sjg007 6y ago
      Well... umm.. 300 miles is nothing. That's an 8 hour drive max with really bad traffic. That's not really a comparative point.
      - gen220 6y ago
        I think 300 miles is around the inflection point where, if the transportation systems are mature and trafficked enough, it’s hard to nail down an ideal form of travel. It’s far too long for a taxi, too short for the plane to be obvious, too short for a drive to be overly boring, and too short for a train to be mind-numbing. Any longer (500+), I think the plane gets the obvious advantage. Any shorter and you wouldn’t consider a plane. I guess my point is that, at this point in my life, I’d only want to fly to avoid a reliably 6+hour drive (NYC to Augusta ME, for an example). Even then it’s a toss up, depending on how much stuff I’m bringing with me.

by vecinu 6y ago

hourislate 6y ago

The reason flying was easier 10-15 years ago was because passenger loads increased by 50% while airlines seat capacity remained at 2005 levels. https://www.statista.com/statistics/564717/airline-industry-passenger-traffic-globally/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/564717/airline-industry-... Airlines learned from previous mistakes and basically would not add any capacity until load factors were incredibly high and they knew they could easily fill another flight. Very rarely would someone get bumped 10 plus years ago but in the last few years it was common practice. The planes were stuffed full where even the very back rows typically left open for flight attendants were filled. I used to take at least one trip every week for 20 years and it wasn't so bad. After 911 it became worse but the flight was still ok. The last 3-4 years have been absolutely terrible. Even 1st/Business class was a joke and always oversold. I developed anxiety every time I had to fly simply because of the nightmare of getting through the lines (TSA/Customs/DHS), fighting the crowds, no where to even sit, dirty planes, etc. Flying became like riding in a cattle car. I still fly about once a month and ever since the pandemic it's a lot more pleasant. My last flight had over 100 empty seats and absolutely no lines or people at the airport. Reminded my of a flight I once took to YYZ from DFW on a 727 in 91. I and two more guys were the only passengers on the whole plane, 2 in coach and the other in 1st. Three of us on the whole plane. Felt like a Rock Star on my own private jet.... I'm confident that flying will become miserable again. In another year I expect everything will be back to shit/normal.

tootie 6y ago

In the two years pre pandemic I had to do a ton of business travel. I could expense whatever I needed, fly biz class for international. It still started to wear on me. I think it's just getting older. It's more emotional effort to be away from home. I started feeling some anxiety just about being trapped in a flying tube and not being able to leave. Also because seats are narrower and I'm wider.

bonestamp2 6y ago
For a couple years I was taking 4 flights/week. I absolutely hate flying now and the conclusion I came to was that travel has a lot of anxieties, and air travel in particular involves even more. There are so many variables out of your control that have to go your way to be successful.

rubicon33 6y ago

You're not alone. I used to actually really enjoy flying but the experience has severely degraded over the years. My chief complaints are insanely tight seat density, shitty food / flight amenities, and a terrible boarding process.

echelon 6y ago

The US needs a more substantial train system. Sleeper cars are refreshing and train travel is extremely enjoyable.

throwaway201103 6y ago
Sleeper cars are better than an airplane seat, but I wouldn't call them refreshing. The beds are narrow, firm, heat/AC is a crapshoot, and train noises and movement can keep you awake.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  For any serious work in crowded/noisy places, bring earplugs. I used to complete my Chicago commute (train/foot) using cheap , disposable 30db earplugs.
- octoberfranklin 6y ago
  Well they should be at least as good as international first class flights for the part where you're lying down asleep (or trying to sleep).
TylerE 6y ago
There just isn't the population density in about 90% of the US.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  As compared to France?
  - TylerE 6y ago
    France is 1/3rd higher, and it's centered in relatively fewer big cities - Paris alone is one quarter of the total population of France - no area in the US comes close. In the US it's worse than the density alone would suggest... because 80% of the country right in the middle geographically has a density that is for all intents and purposes zero.

gen220 6y ago

We travel around 300 miles pretty regularly to visit family. Over the years we’ve tried almost every form of transportation: train, renting a car, flying, dirt cheap buses, very fancy buses. Bang for the buck, I’d say our preference became car, train, fancy bus, flying, bad bus. They all pretty much take the same time, door to door, because the airports are not particularly accessible from our starting point and destination. The key factors were autonomy and punctuality. If the train or bus hit traffic or broke down, you were totally screwed. Sometimes for hours. If the car hit traffic, we stopped for dinner. The plane is the most expensive, and provides some of the worst experiences of the three. They were rarely late, but really made you suffer for the price. I never thought I’d become a car person, and yet here I am!

octoberfranklin 6y ago
What's a fancy bus? Is that like the sawed-off schoolbus?
- gen220 6y ago
  It’s basically a greyhound bus with 1/2 the seats, a complimentary hot meal, functional air conditioning, and comfortable chairs. They charge a premium, but you bring as many bags as you like and the pickup locations are usually less chaotic (a hotel rather than a regional mass transit center). They still suffer from traffic and the movement of the vehicle (trains are way better in this dimension). They’re kind of like what I imagine flying in the 80s was like, in terms of the amenities and milieu of customers. Except with near constant turbulence.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    Well... umm.. 300 miles is nothing. That's an 8 hour drive max with really bad traffic. That's not really a comparative point.
    - gen220 6y ago
      I think 300 miles is around the inflection point where, if the transportation systems are mature and trafficked enough, it’s hard to nail down an ideal form of travel. It’s far too long for a taxi, too short for the plane to be obvious, too short for a drive to be overly boring, and too short for a train to be mind-numbing. Any longer (500+), I think the plane gets the obvious advantage. Any shorter and you wouldn’t consider a plane. I guess my point is that, at this point in my life, I’d only want to fly to avoid a reliably 6+hour drive (NYC to Augusta ME, for an example). Even then it’s a toss up, depending on how much stuff I’m bringing with me.