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Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?
- denimnerd42 6y ago> Defense of the Ancients is up 38%. interesting error calling Dota 2 "Defense of the Ancients"
- errantspark 6y agoIIRC, the only reason it's not called that is some inane IP bullshit. "Dota 2" officially but Defense of the Ancients 7.25 in the hearts and minds of anyone who's been around for the past decade and a half.
- reducesuffering 6y agoYou mean Warcraft 10.25?
- shadowofneptune 6y agoSimple answer might just be that there's only so much that can differentiate one streaming service from another. If we're making comparisons to the traditional music industry, the streaming services might not be the labels -- they could be the recording formats. Just as with buying a CD player vs buying a Minidisc player, very few people with go through the cost or effort to use many different forms of media.
- denimnerd42 6y agoI still think automated playlist creation has a ways to go. That would be the differentiator to me. I hate spending time creating playlists because I have horrible memory of bands and song names. For some reason there isn't enough feedback on the app I use though. For example there's no "I love this song, but you've played this song too much for me lately"
- will_pseudonym 6y agoYMMV, but I got 4 months of Tidal for $1 as a Black Friday deal, and I really felt like its "radio" feature was better than other services. It's one reason I miss Tidal over Spotify.
- runarberg 6y agoI’m one of the people that still tune in to the radio and listen music programmed by professionals. I don’t subscribe to any streaming service, so I can’t speak for the decline, but perhaps during the pandemic more people spending more time at home find robotic programing on the streaming services inferior to human curated music on the radio.
- andreareina 6y agoI feel like Pandora was very good for this, at least up to the point that I left the States and could no longer subscribe.
- harlanji 6y agoI make a new playlist each year. I seed it with some stuff, and it’s locked in place at the end of the year. Same Spotify handle as HN. Add a song here and there, perfect the flow, make sure it shuffles.
- dragonwriter 6y ago> If we're making comparisons to the traditional music industry, the streaming services might not be the labels -- they could be the recording formats. The streaming services are more like a hybrid of radio stations and music retail stores; they are where people go to listen to and/or buy recordings.
- systemvoltage 6y agoI can't remember the last time I sat down and spent dedicated time just listening to music. It is the same restlessness that I have when I try to medidate. Songs are just boring and I need to have an excuse to listen to music - like driving so I can optimize the time. "I am driving, might as well take advantage of some music". The internet has ruined peace, fun, and everything that I remember growing up. :-(
- wolco2 6y agoTry listening to older music. It's less boring and tries to bring out an emotion. A lot of the newer music has proshopped out any real emotion.
- dvlsg 6y agoI can't say I agree with that. There is a lot of really good new music, just like there is a lot of bad old music. The difference is the bad old music has already been forgotten, but the bad new music is recent enough to still be somewhat memorable. For now.
- tayo42 6y agoGood music depends on what you like. Rock is a dead genre now, if you don't like edm or trap/hip hop then what new music are you listening to?
- runarberg 6y agoRock is by no means dead. There are dozens of new releases on bandcamp and its still quite popular as far as I know. Sure I believe the genre has suffered during the pandemic, as many artists rely on live performance, but that would only mean that rock would be hyphenating. But its not. Artists still find ways to release new rock music as evident on their preferred platform.
- tayo42 6y ago
- FrozenVoid 6y agoIts keeping up by increased density of words/minute https://michaeltauberg.medium.com/music-and-our-attention-spans-are-getting-shorter-8be37b5c2d67 https://michaeltauberg.medium.com/music-and-our-attention-sp...
- KingMachiavelli 6y ago> TikTok is also giving music streaming platforms a run for their money. TikTok relies on music and is popular enough now that they must have some license deal with the labels. I the amount per 30 second clip isn't much but I know people who spend hours on TikTok daily.
- Animats 6y agoThere's an inherent upper limit for streaming music. You can only listen to one stream at a time.
- koolba 6y agoYou’ve never watched tv with music playing in the background?
- shadowofneptune 6y agoThis is the main reason I'm skeptical that other forms of media are distracting from streaming. Someone could easily turn of Dota 2's music and listen to Spotify in the background.
- krebs_liebhaber 6y agoExcuse me, what the fuck?
- natchy 6y agoYeah but you can multi-task with audio. I can wash dishes and listen.
- tenebrisalietum 6y agoThere has to be people out there that stream instrumentals simultaneously with audio books or ASMR.
- ldng 6y agoWha' ?? You mean no infinite growth ? Shocking ! ;-)
- Mediterraneo10 6y agoRemember all that promise of neurohacking in the near future that people like Ray Kurzweil liked to write about? One wonders if once techniques to boost the human brain’s bandwidth arise, they will be used in large part to allow people to consume multiple content streams at once. Imagine the boost it would give to a person’s erudition to be able to watch a classic film, read a classic novel, and listen to a classic recording all at the same time.
- randycupertino 6y agoI think less people commuting during the pandemic and sheltering in place probably corresponded to less hours streaming music. My biggest use of spotify was when I commuted and now that I wfh I rarely even open the app. I've been finding audiobooks more relaxing lately than music, not entirely sure why.
- ricc 6y agoThis is what I wanted to say. Since I started working remotely even before the pandemic, my music-listening sessions has been close to nil. The only times I play music is when I workout but I don’t really feel like actually “listening” during this activity.
- tayo42 6y agoDon't need to stream music to drown out office noise either now
- lucb1e 6y agoIf you need to "drown out" noise while in the office, I think there might be something wrong at your workplace. For me home, where you and neighbours are typically off, has always been more loud than workplaces where you need to concentrate.
- oceanswave 6y agoI wonder if there is a link between DCMA crackdowns and the decline of the music industry. Posit: with consumers watching more community produced content and that content prohibited from including traditionsl music sources that consumers may then seek out, then a result might be a decline in the traditional music sources. This might also apply to commercially produced content that doesn’t include music for fear of false flagging.
- Semaphor 6y agoI follow the RSS feed of a metal piracy site. Not to download anything there, but to get updates on interesting albums I might want to buy. It used to be, that I got that information on twitch via song requests from people, but that’s not allowed.
- throwaway13337 6y agoAn aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a lot to do with growing attachment for that band or that song in the first place. The record companies are shooting themselves in the foot here. It's maybe a good thing - a new opportunity is open for a platform that allows a more permissive license. Artists that choose such would likely get a lot more exposure. Maybe the Beatles of the future will finally be creative commons as it should be. Their music is, after all, is bigger than the band. All popular music is a reflection of our collective memory and a common ground to connect with others. After a certain point in popularity, it becomes our collective cultural heritage - no company should own that.
- foepys 6y agoThey absolutely can play popular music. They just don't want to pay for it. All popular YouTubers and streamers are businesses which is a part that is often forgotten. They are all acting like they are friends with their viewers but in reality they are businesses just like a car wash, restaurant, plumber, etc.
- canofbars 6y agoBecause they don't have to pay for it. They have plenty of free music available and they aren't losing fans over it.
- J0_k3r 6y agoLet's say you're a youtuber or streamer who listens to a variety of different music, are you really going to pay to license every one of your favorite songs for business use? No. Instead they go to No Copyright Sounds or Kevin McLeod and grab their stuff instead because why are you going to sacrifice that money to license the music when you're small and starting out?
- grawprog 6y agoStreaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection. Music discovery is easy, relying on a streaming service for discovery is lazy. What's hard is commitment. Taking time to explore the back catalogue of artists you like and taking the time to get to know music. When all you had was physical media, you listened to albums over and over got to know them, relished the new albums you purchased and had to take the time to decide between one or the other. When you heard a new song on the radio or through a friend, there was anticipation. You had to wait before you could listen on your own. Whether it was a slow download on icewire or that wait until you could go buy an album, acquiring music gave you something streaming music doesn't. It gave you forced limitation, which in turn I feel like led to a greater appreciation towards music. It wasn't just something tou consumed, it was something you waited for, finally acquired and then got to enjoy and became part of the rest of 'your music.'
- harlanji 6y agoI worked on a chat app where we designed in some limitations that emulated the feel of an older era. Maybe the next MySpace will be kinda slow. SD Cards, PO Boxes, eventual consistency, widely adopted formats? Oh my.
- amznthrwaway 6y agoStreaming has been incredible for me, and my love of music. I know and love music today that I never would’ve even heard in the old days because it wasn’t on the radio, and I had a limited budget for experimental purchases. I used to have to spend $15 to try an album which would have 2 good tracks if I was lucky. Most times it was entirely mediocre. As a kid, that was a big investment, so I got stuck listening narrowly, and buying things that were very likely to be hits (the same bands; the same labels; etc) Now my friends send me Spotify and YouTube links every day. I’ve found new genres and artists. It’s been wonderful. I know that your ignorant, judgmental, and elitist opinion doesn’t matter; streaming is here to stay. But it’s absurd that your whining that kids today don’t enjoy music the right way is near the top of the page. Your arrogance should be dead, like my comment surely will be.
- Melting_Harps 6y agoOr you know... a large part of small business who once used this service in their stores/shops no longer exist, and the 25%+ of unemployed people, and God only knows all over the World, had to make cut backs to non-essential expenses. Streaming services like Spotify never really made sense to me as business model, for the artists it could be a double edged sword at best if they get the desired exposure and total waste of time at worst since they get paid nothing and are lost in total obscurity. Most artists make money from touring and performances, and unless you're a mainstream artist you're never going to make anything on record sells. Bandcamp cut its fees during the pandemic, and it kept some artists afloat for a while, but it wasn't long after that when you saw the patreon crowdfunding model needed to prop things up. Having DJ'd and been around a lot of musical talent in clubs throughout the last 14 years its clear most had to have day jobs in between gigs and supporting their own labels on top of living expenses. I doubt many had much or anything in savings and I fear with so many clubs and venues going under its going to take another generation of an underground rave scene to brings things back to what it was 10-15 years ago for many of the music scenes I still went out for. Which may be a good thing, but its still hard to see so many artists talent get wasted due to COVID.
- fabbari 6y agoA bit of a tangent here. I remember the TV commercials by music labels in the early days of online piracy telling people: "If you download music you're killing the little music shops in your neighborhood!". The moment labels moved to online streaming, the little shops in your neighborhood could go and f*** off. The irony was never lost on me.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago> The irony was never lost on me. As mentioned I came from a music scene that incidentally has its roots from pirate radio, literately guys climbing towers and hi-jacking frequencies in London to broadcast locally as well as online streaming, illegal underground raves so it was typical to see how this very same group of artists and DJs had their own labels to bypass the gatekeepers/middlemen as the sound was too 'strange,' but would eventually get coprorate backing after it became profitable and Red Bull even dcreated an academy for many of the pioneers. I really thought we would have done away with large labels and middlemen in this Industry by now, because while I only know this 2nd hand touring catches up to you; especially as many went from being teenagers/20-somethings with no responsibilities to middle aged parents so touring becomes impractical and often detrimental to any chance of any work-life balance. But, yeah it was clear they never cared about the mom and pop and it was always about protecting thier archiac business model. And I really think our DNB and Dubstep scene kept many independent shops and mastering/pressing afloat and it was a big part of the resurgence in vinyl in the 2000s we saw. Even now I get a chuckle of seeing the limited color pressing offers/pre-buys on Bandcamp as almost no one who DJs is on vinyl anymore, unless it's their gimmick, so when it sells out you know its just fans buying them up. So why do we need these people now that distribution and fees can be reduced to what they are now on bandcamp and PR/booking tours is no longer the only thing that made those relationships remotely tolerable? If you haven't already done so, check out Grimes interview with Andrew Yang. It was kind of interesting hearing her view on things as Canada promotes its local talent and the State gives them grants, which is incredibly odd but kind of novel way of doing things if it generates local demand for events and record sales which they benefit from in tax revenue.
- comprev 6y agoI don't use streaming services because I disagree with their insulting revenue for the artists. Fortunately I've always been one to seek out more underground artists, and platforms like Bandcamp have been amazing. Not only do the artists get an order of magnitude more revenue, sellers can offer merchandise and physical media (vinyl, CD, cassette) too. These often include a digital copy. Due to the closer connection between artists and fans I've received many signed/personalised records for the collection over the years. Artists can also gauge demand for future releases almost like crowdfunding. To me Bandcamp has been the saviour of music in the streaming age.
- commandlinefan 6y agoWhat IS the revenue agreement? This seems to be the most closely guarded secret in America.
- lifeformed 6y agoFor Bandcamp? They take 15%, or 10% if you're doing well. For streaming services, they split their income proportionally amongst all played tracks. That's about 0.3 cents per play on Spotify recently.
- satyrnein 6y agoThe services have straightforward agreements to their suppliers, which are typically labels or distributors for most popular music. The complaint about the artist's eventual earnings is often actually a complaint about the artist's deal with their label.
- satyrnein 6y agoI'm not sure why it would be an order of magnitude more money. Bandcamp takes 10-15% while Spotify takes 30%. So potentially 90 cents on the dollar instead of 70. Unless you're including other factors?
- comprev 6y agoBandcamp relies on fans buying the music, whereas Spotify relies on streams. It can take thousands of streams to reach the same cash that goes to the artist after one purchase.
- ksec 6y ago>— if subscribers are added and consumption stays flat, rights holders just make more per stream. But a move toward podcasts could cost rights holders leverage in licensing negotiations. Could someone else confirms that. Because that is not the way how I know it works. Has this been changed?
- gitowiec 6y agoI'm occasional listener. I share Spotify subscription with my friend from work. I listen like once a week. It is far less then when I was 20 years old (it was 20 years ago). Then I was listening like 4 hours or more a day (on the way to school and back using my Walkman, at home using my HiFi, radio and cd player and MP3 collection). Today it's more of luxury time, when I'm done running errands, taking care of child, cooking, cleaning, then I can sit down and relax and listen to the sounds of my past to travel to the careless times. Today we sat to eat morning breakfast, my 4yo daughter, partner and me. I turned on HiFi and connected Spotify with Chromecast to listen to Christmas playlist. During whole breakfast it disconnected rapidly like 10 times. I had enough... Really it is less then pleasurable than putting old CD into player and just forget. Technology ruins good moments, especially for someone like me, and that person likes everything perfect. And I just got annoyed,...
- fb03 6y agoWhile I really like what music streaming services gave me (an opportunity to explore quickly lots of new music), I think it is also coaxing, pasteurizing and generalizing music to the 'most added value possible' or 'most hype created possible per track', to which the epitome of this concept is called 'lo fi hip hop music', which now everyone making mainstream music tries to emulate or incorporate. I know this will sound harsh and obtuse, but if you notice, all 'dope' pop music now for kids is some variant of alternated trap-like rhythmic hihats and a really sloooow beats with a looong, bassy kick tail. to fill that huge nothingness pocket between the stuff, add some nice lush vocals (saying whatever, it doesn't matter much) and that's it. or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky.
- oblio 6y ago> or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky. Quite likely. There are a lot of studies that show that we're "programmed" to like music we listened to as teenagers. Even though we like other kinds of music we listen to as adults, they don't trigger the same level of response in the brain.
- fb03 6y agoI can agree, but what makes me doubt it is that "back in the day" (oh shit) we had lots of mainstream music that was different between themselves. we had the hiphoppers, we had the people that craved fast "whitney houston remix" level high energy dance stuff, we had the "hey i'm mean" rockers. all sharing the top charts. if you take the medium bpm between the top 100 billboard tracks right now it must be somewhere between 69-80bpm and with the characteristics i mentioned above - and it's all a smear between "i'm depressed" and rhythm and blues. i still can't quite confirm but yes, i am also getting old and cranky :) but srsly, don't you feel music is just becoming a pasteurized smear of the 'same' ?
- BLKNSLVR 6y ago> but srsly, don't you feel music is just becoming a pasteurized smear of the 'same' ? Yes, but only the 'popular' music that's forced on me at every opportunity. It's a great big smear that bleeds in and through itself unless it's just one big scab with slightly different colours in slightly different areas. The music I choose to listen to, both old and modern, both the new to me and also the familiar, is widely varying. I feel like I have ADD when it comes to musical taste. In creating a 'playlist for right now' I'll get bored of a song that's up next because I've scrolled on to a different artist and already started playing their songs in my head and want to listen to them NOW instead of the song I choose three minutes ago. World music, rock, jazz, blues, electronic, psychedelic, I love music crossing all these boundaries and want to fit them all in. As such, I truly don't understand the acceptance, by seemingly most of society, of the bland sameness (smear) of the 'top 40'. But it's human laziness and 'better things to do'. 'They' obviously don't feel it in their souls like I do, like we do. And I pity them what they're missing.
- throw_m239339 6y agothere is very little money in music today, too many artists, very little audience ready to pay for it. Either you live in the right place where there is a scene and you might be able to have a career in making your own music, or you need to consider yourself a composer and make music for others (movies, tvshows, ads, ...), this is where the money is at today, not in trying to be a music star. Even gigs don't pay that much compared to that, because one needs an audience. As for online services. Spotify is 100% pointless when it comes to monetization, bandcamp is a bit better if you can provide physical goods.
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- slothtrop 6y agoThe model is pretty broken. I'm curious as to whether stream-to-own platforms like resonate.is will take off, as artists need a bigger payout for it to be sustainable. But I expect interest in new streaming services to be stagnant. People aren't interested in shifting between services that are functionally identical to the consumer.
- juancn 6y agoCommute time is down, I listen to music mostly while I'm commuting and I assume I'm not alone. 2020 is unusual.