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People throwing out "processed food" as some catch-all term for packaged stuff that is bad for you is a major pet peeve of mine. Yes, foods that are pre-packag

by dolni 6y ago

People throwing out "processed food" as some catch-all term for packaged stuff that is bad for you is a major pet peeve of mine. Yes, foods that are pre-packaged tend not to be good for you. You _should_ eat fresh foods and vegetables. But saying that all "processed" foods are bad for you is a gross oversimplifcation that promotes ignorance about nutrition. In the many conversations I've had about processed foods, people never seem to be talking about things like milk, yogurt, or cheese, all of which undergo _heavy_ processing. And to provide a direct comparison, generally speaking, a glass of Soylent is going to be way more beneficial to you nutritionally than a plate of crappy iceberg lettuce with a little salad dressing on it. Although you could make the case that if you're extremely overweight, maybe the iceberg lettuce is better just for the lower calorie content. Not all things that come in packages are created equal. Some "processed" foods are better for you than some vegetables. But like anything else, moderation is key. Your diet needs to be diverse. Instead of telling people "processed foods bad hurr durr", teach them about the major nutrients the body needs and where you can get those. Then, consider that person's individual circumstances to offer them specific advice. Not all bodies are the same. Some people are going to need more of one food or another. Some people will tolerate certain foods less well than others. Nutrition is complex. Indicting "processed foods", whatever that means (their definition does little to reduce ambiguity), is as egregious as the corporate capture of nutrition that they claim to be shining a light on.

shanecleveland 6y ago
Which is why the headline emphasis this is in reference to "ultra-processed" foods and they further go on to define ultra-processed as: Ultra-processed foods and beverages can be defined as products with additives and industrially processed ingredients that have been technologically broken down and modified.7 They are not merely processed foods with high levels of sugar, salt, and fat but also contain ingredients and additives not commonly used in home kitchens and artisanal restaurants, such as synthetic flavours, emulsifiers, hydrogenated oils, and soy protein isolates. The role of these ingredients is often to simulate the taste, texture, or nutritional profile of minimally processed foods.
- dolni 6y ago
  Yes, I read the definition. It does little to clear up confusion. What constitutes a synthetic flavor? Is vanilla extract an example or do you have to go further than that? Emulsifiers are things that actually get used in regular cooking. According to https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-does-emulsify-mean-480592#:~:text=Common%20emulsifiers%20include%20egg%20yolks,%2C%20miso%2C%20and%20garlic%20paste https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-does-emulsify-mean-480592.... egg yolks and honey are both emulsifiers. Based on how that sentence is phrased, you'd think that an emulsifier is something synthesized chemical that the average chef has never heard of. Hydrogenated oils and soy protein isolates have long been recognized as things to avoid, so their inclusion in the list is not a surprise. Like I said, the definition is overbroad and does little to help someone like me actually identify things that are very bad for me. I already know eating a bag of Doritos for dinner is not a great idea. What sort of food items do you typically see these nutritional monsters hiding out in? Are they so awful that they shouldn't be enjoyed even as a once-in-a-while indulgence? The article specifically mentions Coca Cola and Mars, among others. I mean golly gee, thanks for the big brain insight. Are there people out there who didn't know that soda and candy bars are not paragons of nutrition?
  - nwienert 6y ago
    It’s a bit like porn or automatic guns, hard to define perfectly but easy to see and discuss. Not one person thinks of egg yolks or honey when talking about “ultra processed additives”. I don’t think you’re making any point here about confusion you’re just ranting. If I were to try and extract some coherent positive thought out of this, I’d say a website that tracks and allows discussion of ingredients and products that are good/bad would be interesting so we could stop bikeshedding on naming when obviously there exist many levels of better/worse foods and ingredients.
    - dolni 6y ago
      > I don’t think you’re making any point here about confusion you’re just ranting. How uncharitable. > If I were to try and extract some coherent positive thought out of this, I’d say a website that tracks and allows discussion of ingredients and products that are good/bad would be interesting so we could stop bikeshedding on naming when obviously there exist many levels of better/worse foods and ingredients. That's basically it. I'd hazard a guess that at least some "ultra-processed" ingredients don't have any effect on you at all. Some might even be positive. People take medication for health conditions after all, and they help them live longer, higher quality lives. What could be more ultra-processed than that? Scientists and engineers don't generally tolerate painting with such a broad brush, and it's at least obvious to me that there are several confounding variables here other than the artificial ingredients themselves (super high calorie density, for example).
neogodless 6y ago
> teach them about the major nutrients the body needs and where you can get those The school system teaches students about the major nutrients the body needs, and what common foods include those. The corporations use major nutrients in advertising products that also contain lots of unnecessary ingredients, and that marketing works. That's actually a large portion of what this article describes.
- dolni 6y ago
  I don't know what public schools are teaching these days, but when I was a kid it was all about the food pyramid, which I discovered some years later in high school was absolute crap. You could go a long way with "eat a diverse diet, prefer vegetables".
hnick 6y ago
> In the many conversations I've had about processed foods, people never seem to be talking about things like milk, yogurt, or cheese, all of which undergo _heavy_ processing. The faddish 'paleo/caveman diet' definitely says you shouldn't eat these, and I think that's the poster boy for the unprocessed diet. But it also depends on your genetics, if you're from a lineage that has no issue with lactose then it's probably fine. They are very calorie dense though if weight loss/maintenance is a goal.

by dolni 6y ago

shanecleveland 6y ago

Which is why the headline emphasis this is in reference to "ultra-processed" foods and they further go on to define ultra-processed as: Ultra-processed foods and beverages can be defined as products with additives and industrially processed ingredients that have been technologically broken down and modified.7 They are not merely processed foods with high levels of sugar, salt, and fat but also contain ingredients and additives not commonly used in home kitchens and artisanal restaurants, such as synthetic flavours, emulsifiers, hydrogenated oils, and soy protein isolates. The role of these ingredients is often to simulate the taste, texture, or nutritional profile of minimally processed foods.

dolni 6y ago
Yes, I read the definition. It does little to clear up confusion. What constitutes a synthetic flavor? Is vanilla extract an example or do you have to go further than that? Emulsifiers are things that actually get used in regular cooking. According to https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-does-emulsify-mean-480592#:~:text=Common%20emulsifiers%20include%20egg%20yolks,%2C%20miso%2C%20and%20garlic%20paste https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-does-emulsify-mean-480592.... egg yolks and honey are both emulsifiers. Based on how that sentence is phrased, you'd think that an emulsifier is something synthesized chemical that the average chef has never heard of. Hydrogenated oils and soy protein isolates have long been recognized as things to avoid, so their inclusion in the list is not a surprise. Like I said, the definition is overbroad and does little to help someone like me actually identify things that are very bad for me. I already know eating a bag of Doritos for dinner is not a great idea. What sort of food items do you typically see these nutritional monsters hiding out in? Are they so awful that they shouldn't be enjoyed even as a once-in-a-while indulgence? The article specifically mentions Coca Cola and Mars, among others. I mean golly gee, thanks for the big brain insight. Are there people out there who didn't know that soda and candy bars are not paragons of nutrition?
- nwienert 6y ago
  It’s a bit like porn or automatic guns, hard to define perfectly but easy to see and discuss. Not one person thinks of egg yolks or honey when talking about “ultra processed additives”. I don’t think you’re making any point here about confusion you’re just ranting. If I were to try and extract some coherent positive thought out of this, I’d say a website that tracks and allows discussion of ingredients and products that are good/bad would be interesting so we could stop bikeshedding on naming when obviously there exist many levels of better/worse foods and ingredients.
  - dolni 6y ago
    > I don’t think you’re making any point here about confusion you’re just ranting. How uncharitable. > If I were to try and extract some coherent positive thought out of this, I’d say a website that tracks and allows discussion of ingredients and products that are good/bad would be interesting so we could stop bikeshedding on naming when obviously there exist many levels of better/worse foods and ingredients. That's basically it. I'd hazard a guess that at least some "ultra-processed" ingredients don't have any effect on you at all. Some might even be positive. People take medication for health conditions after all, and they help them live longer, higher quality lives. What could be more ultra-processed than that? Scientists and engineers don't generally tolerate painting with such a broad brush, and it's at least obvious to me that there are several confounding variables here other than the artificial ingredients themselves (super high calorie density, for example).

neogodless 6y ago

> teach them about the major nutrients the body needs and where you can get those The school system teaches students about the major nutrients the body needs, and what common foods include those. The corporations use major nutrients in advertising products that also contain lots of unnecessary ingredients, and that marketing works. That's actually a large portion of what this article describes.

dolni 6y ago
I don't know what public schools are teaching these days, but when I was a kid it was all about the food pyramid, which I discovered some years later in high school was absolute crap. You could go a long way with "eat a diverse diet, prefer vegetables".

hnick 6y ago

> In the many conversations I've had about processed foods, people never seem to be talking about things like milk, yogurt, or cheese, all of which undergo _heavy_ processing. The faddish 'paleo/caveman diet' definitely says you shouldn't eat these, and I think that's the poster boy for the unprocessed diet. But it also depends on your genetics, if you're from a lineage that has no issue with lactose then it's probably fine. They are very calorie dense though if weight loss/maintenance is a goal.