6 ms·

I'm curious, what's your cut off point for processed food? Just things that are ready to eat besides fruits and veggies? What about white flour and rice as oppo

• xnx 6y ago
  I'm not sure what approach syntaxing used, and "processed" is a fuzzy term, but bread and pasta have a lot more in common with twinkies and oreos than fruits and vegetables.
  • dilap 6y ago
    Bread, pasta, fruits, and vegetables: all things we've been eating for at least a couple thousand years; no fat or mostly saturated fats. Twinkies and Oreos: signicant quantities of novel ingredients that have only existed in the last 150 or so years; high quantities of omega-6 polyunsaturated fats.
    • AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      True, but there's also a distinction to be made among kinds of carbohydrates. I think of it in two categories, coal and jet fuel. Coal is stuff like potatoes - it's fuel, but it lasts a long time. Twinkies, white bread, and even white rice are jet fuel - they burn really fast, and then they're gone. Eat carbs that are coal, not jet fuel.
      • dilap 6y ago
        Definitely differences, but I'm not convinced it matters so much, at least in healthy people. E.g., lots of people eat a whole lot of white rice and seem to do quite well on it. The Hadza, a tribe in africa, at certain times of the year, get about half their calories from honey, and they are very healthy. And fruit would certainly also have to be in the rocket-fuel category, no? (If you're already unhealthy (e.g. type II diabetic), there seems to be a lot of benefit in going very-low or no-carb.)
        • petertodd 6y ago
          "The honey isn’t your store-bought, pristine golden syrup smelling faintly of HFCS. It’s straight up honeycomb, teeming with bees and larvae and pollen and the queenly secretions called royal jelly. In fact, studies tend to emphasize that the Hadza get 15-50% of their calories not from honey, but from “honey and bee larvae.”" -https://www.marksdailyapple.com/hadza-honey/ https://www.marksdailyapple.com/hadza-honey/ They aren't eating the honey that your or I eat. Not to mention, they're probably far more physically active.
          • dilap 6y ago
            That's a good point (especially for anyone considering making store-bought honey a staple of their diet), and an interesting observation, but even so, they would still, at the extreme end of 50% larva, be getting something like overall 25% of their calories from a "rocket fuel" of simple sugar. So I remain convinced that the main problem with modern processed food is not the amount or makeup of the carbs, but more likely the novel ingredients and quantities of fats. The Hadza do move a lot, but not a crazy amount: about 2 hours per day of "moderate to vigerous physical activity." https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/01/03/507562845/staying-fit-isnt-a-new-years-resolution-for-these-hunter-gatherers https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/01/03/5075628... I would predict that 2 hours of exercise a day are not going to save you from a diet of twinkies and oreos; exercise is great, but eating healthy food is critical.
            • petertodd 6y ago
              2 hours average of "moderate to vigorous" physical activity is not a trivial amount. I've personally lost a lot of weight (~12kg) doing less than that amount of average exercise consistently, while eating a crap diet (I moved, and started commuting to work and school via bike). Anyway, at the end of the day calories in/calories out is a hard limit. Sure, they may be getting even 50% of their diet from "rocket fuel". But if they're calorie constrained by a hunter/gatherer lifestyle, why would that matter?
              • 6y ago
      • TheIshtar 6y ago
        What you’re referring to is (and I’m over simplifying here) glucose versus sucrose. Potatoes have glucose, and aren’t sweet. Twinkies and the like are full of sugar aka sucrose (which is half fructose) which is the real issue. Avoiding all food with fructose is a good idea. Not only is it bad because only your liver can process it (none of your other cells can use it, unlike glucose) but fructose is in some emerging studies to prohibit lepton signaling. Leptin is the hormone that tells your brain you’re full and no longer need to eat. Many obese people have impaired signaling. Food addition is not a good term. Food addictive addiction is better. No one would eat the cookies if it wasn’t for the sugar. Or get addicted to coffee without the caffeine. Sugar is the same as alcohol - it has calories, sure, so could be considered an energy source. But it has no other nutritional value. Yet it is regarded as a food. One cigarette is not harmful, yet we know smoking everyday will cause you some ill effects. It’s the same with sugar. An acute dose in itself is not dangerous. But over time it does.
      • phonypc 6y ago
        Except, of all your examples potatoes are the fastest burning fuel. Twinkies the slowest.
  • wongarsu 6y ago
    And apples are full of sugar. Drawing the line is hard.
    • watwut 6y ago
      Apples are not processed at all. Coincidently, they have tons of fiber and you wont actually get fat from eating apples. Unless you eat them dried, in the form of juice or in other "processed" form.
      • wongarsu 6y ago
        You eat the apple the way it comes from the tree, but trees today make very different apples from those 5000 years ago. We have changed most fruit substantially.
        • watwut 6y ago
          I was still taking about contemporary apples. What makes you think I reference 5000 years old one? I don't even think people 5000 live healthier lifes on average.
          • wongarsu 6y ago
            The point I'm trying to make is that saying "Apple's aren't processed at all" is a pretty arbitrary line after everything we've done to apple trees. Modern Apples are as much a product of civilization as pasta.
  • kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > bread and pasta have a lot more in common with twinkies and oreos than fruits and vegetables. Not if you make your bread yourself from unbleached flour. It's cheaper (except for the really industrial sliced junk) and better than most that you can buy and if you let it ferment overnight there is not work involved in kneading it. My usual recipe is 500 g plain flour (flour here is about 11.5% protein), 400 g water, 8 g salt, 1 g dried yeast. Mix, leave overnight, fold over a couple of times, wait one hour, heat a conventional oven and a cast iron casserole with a lid until it reaches 230 C, drop the dough in the pot, put on the lid, cook for 35 minutes at 230 C, take off the lid cook further for 20 minutes. Total time I spend actually working is probably less than ten minutes. You can use any container suitable for cooking dry at that temperature. Keeping the lid on keeps the moisture in and helps develop the crust. Adjust the times depending on how brown you like the crust.
    • implements 6y ago
      Sounds good - though you can also use a Breadmaker to automate the same(ish) quality natural ingredient loaf.
      • kwhitefoot 6y ago
        I have a bread maker and it is more ish than same; perhaps it's not a good one. The long fermentation of 'my' recipe means that the gluten develops better giving a better crumb and the cooking method gives a better crust both in structure and colour.
• icandoit 6y ago
  For me personally: if (foodItem.ingredientList.size()>9) {return false;} else if (foodItem.inventedYearsAgo()<100) {return false;} else{ return true;} So I can eat a baguette prepared traditionally, and a few brands of prepared bread from the grocery store.
  • blakesterz 6y ago
    I think Polan said something like "If your great grandparents didn't have it, it's probably not good for you" and I think that's a pretty good rule of thumb.
    • mrfusion 6y ago
      Protein bars?
      • smt88 6y ago
        Pollan specifically calls out protein bars for being extremely processed and full of hidden unhealthy ingredients.
        • deleted 6y ago
          [deleted]
    • kazinator 6y ago
      Mostly limited to food though; doesn't work for items like polio vaccines and three-prong electrical outlets. :)
    • SilasX 6y ago
      Hot Pockets are a rebranding of meat pies, which have been around since medieval times.
      • froasty 6y ago
        Hot Pockets are not a rebranding. Hot Pockets are economically adulterated putrescence masquerading as a meat pie. Ingredients: ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR, NIACIN, IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), WATER, COOKED BEEF PATTIE CRUMBLES (BEEF HAMBURGER, WATER, TEXTURED VEGETABLE PROTEIN [SOY FLOUR, CARAMEL COLOR], SOY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, LESS THAN 2% OF THE FOLLOWING: SALT, SPICE, NATURAL FLAVORS, DEXTROSE, YEAST EXTRACT, ONION POWDER, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSPHATE), REDUCED FAT CHEDDAR CHEESE (PASTEURIZED PART SKIM MILK, SKIM MILK, MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, CULTURES, SALT, FLAVORS, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, ANNATTO, VITAMIN A PALMITATE, ENZYMES, INGREDIENTS NOT IN REGULAR CHEDDAR CHEESE), KETCHUP (TOMATO PUREE [TOMATO PASTE, WATER], CORN SWEETENER [HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, CORN SYRUP], VINEGAR, SALT, SEASONING [SPICES, SALT, NATURAL FLAVORS, ONION POWDER, GARLIC POWDER], DEHYDRATED ONION), VEGETABLE OIL (SOYBEAN OIL AND/OR CORN OIL), ONIONS, 2% OR LESS OF DILL PICKLE RELISH (PICKLES, WATER, DISTILLED VINEGAR, SALT AND NATURAL FLAVORS), NON-FAT DRY MILK, BUTTERMILK POWDER, MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, SUGAR, VINEGAR, TOASTED SESAME SEEDS, FRACTIONATED PALM OIL, YEAST, DOUGH CONDITIONER BLEND (CALCIUM SULFATE, SALT, L-CYSTEINE HYDROCHLORIDE, GARLIC POWDER, TRICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, ENZYMES [WHEAT]), SALT, SOY LECITHIN, SODIUM STEAROYL LACTYLATE, METHYLCELLULOSE, WHEY, SOY FLOUR, DRIED EGG WHITES.
• AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
  Not the OP, but: to me the cut point was when I started writing the calories down. After some time (a week?) you get a pretty good idea of what takes what. An apple is 100. "Boring foods" like boiled potatoes are circa 100 calories per 100 grams. "Fun foods" like chicken breast or ikea meatballs are 200 calories per 100 grams. Oil - 10 calories per ml. And then you look at <younameit> cheesy crackers and realize that something is wrong: no way 30 grams of human food should be 200 calories.
  • mrfusion 6y ago
    It’s a good way to look at things. Someone on HN said you’ll easily lose weight if you stick to foods less than one calorie per gram. I believe it but I can’t find many foods ...
    • syntaxing 6y ago
      I found frozen veggies is the best and so convenient. This + an air fryer makes cooking so much quicker. Also good for fatty foods like wings since it bakes out the grease better than my oven.
      • mrfusion 6y ago
        What kind of frozen veggies do you put in an air fryer?
        • syntaxing 6y ago
          Usually broccoli (tossed in a small amount of oil, garlic powder, and pepper). Another amazing choice is fries. Without the additional soaked oil, the calories is surprisingly close to just eating a baked potato.
• poma88 6y ago
  Raw in-gre-dients.
• adrian_b 6y ago
  The claims that it is better to eat whole grains than white rice or white flour are very wrong (when the claims have no context). Obviously, if you had been some poor peasant and 80% of your food consisted of cereals, then eating whole grains would have been immensely better than eating just white rice or white flour. On the other hand, if you eat a wide variety of foods, you can get any minerals, vitamins and proteins that you need from much better sources than whole grains. Above satisfying your basic necessities with other nutrients, you can add enough fatty foods and starchy foods to satisfy your energy needs, depending on how much physical activity you do. As starch sources, sweet potatoes, potatoes, bananas, maize, white rice, white flour and others are preferable to whole grains. If you cook yourself with white rice or white flour, the food should be OK. Unfortunately, if you buy modern bread or similar industrial products made with flour, looking at the composition you will see a huge number of substances beyond the traditional recipes. Those substances may or may not have some deleterious effect, but, at least in my experience, one certain effect is that with processed food that I buy I am never satiated for long and I have the tendency to eat too large quantities. Since I have switched to eating only food that I am cooking myself from raw ingredients, I have never felt again the need to overeat.
  • bumby 6y ago
    >As starch sources, sweet potatoes, potatoes, bananas, maize, white rice, white flour and others are preferable to whole grains. Can you elaborate as to why the more processed variants are preferable? What is inherently we worse about whole grains and why do the general recommendations get it wrong?
• syntaxing 6y ago
  I used to eat a lot of quick meals (mainly instant food like instant noodles or mac and cheese and the occasion microwave food). It sounds crazy and purely anecdata, but I found that processed organic stuff tend to have less calories than non organic food. I have started eating the less processed variant of food (brown calrose rice, wheat bread, and steel cut oats) and maybe that has helped(?). But one thing I cannot tolerate is whole grain pasta. That stuff taste like cardboard+sand paper to me.
  • car 6y ago
    Makes sense, is has to do with how quickly the blood sugar rises after a meal. This is known as glycemic index, which can for instance be defined by the way food was process. An example are instant oatmeal vs. steel cut oats. Great explainer video on this topic [1] (and many many others!). [1]https://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-is-a-better-breakfast-cereal-or-oatmeal/ https://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-is-a-better-breakfast...