3 ms·

> without any evidence that this elitism is warranted What kind of evidence would you accept? And if you won't accept it from R. Gabriel, P. Graham, P. Greens

> without any evidence that this elitism is warranted What kind of evidence would you accept? And if you won't accept it from R. Gabriel, P. Graham, P. Greenspun, and other "household" names, why should the rest of us bother sweating to assemble a watertight case for your wastebasket's eyes?

troutwine 15y ago
> What kind of evidence would you accept? Code. Every author takes on himself the onerous to justify his claims. I am familiar with the works of the authors you mention; they present a good argument that lisp is a fine language for fine works. It is an entirely different argument to assert that, merely through the use of lisp, you will revolutionize the world. That, as I read it, is the claim made by the original author. It is that claim which has gone unsubstantiated, for years. The rest of you--incidentally, no need to use exclusionary language: we are all friend here--need do nothing. Mr. Datskovskiy has some code to deliver. A bootloader in two years is no accomplishment, though Mr. Datskovskiy has excelled in punditry in this period.
- asciilifeform 15y ago
  Original author speaking. If you actually read the blog (unbearable ordeal, I understand) you would know that Lisp (in available incarnations on available hardware) is not enough: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 Let's see how much of an OS and hardware architecture you can design in several years - without using a single line of code written by another person. Starting with the NAND gate - because that is where you will have to start if you truly intend to avoid recapitulating the mistakes of the past three decades. There was no sequel to the bootloader - I have been occupied with reverse-engineering the bitstream format of a major brand of FPGA (no naming names) in order to dispense with the proprietary x86 toolchain (and eventually with the abomination called Verilog.) Publishing incremental progress in bite-sized chunks is vastly over-rated. It wastes everyone's time and contributes to the proliferation of hideously ragtag systems reminiscent of "Junkyard Wars" (aka much of the software industry.) Punditry, on the other hand, is a relaxing and inexpensive hobby. The hosting bill for the past year of the blog was around $30. Most of my time is spent working on unrelated efforts which I am not at liberty to make public. Currently, they leave precious-little time and energy for my long-term (think lifetime) project. Feel free, of course, to imagine that I am an idler sitting in an armchair drinking the days away, if it makes you happy.
  - troutwine 15y ago
    Clearly you are a man of strong opinion. You are also needlessly rude and insufferably self-important. I apologize that you took my critique so personally, without, of course, apologizing for the critique itself. May you succeed in your ambition.
  - wnoise 15y ago
    > I have been occupied with reverse-engineering the bitstream format of a major brand of FPGA (no naming names) in order to dispense with the proprietary x86 toolchain (and eventually with the abomination called Verilog.) I sincerely hope you succeed. Verilog needs to be killed and replaced with something saner.

troutwine 15y ago

> What kind of evidence would you accept? Code. Every author takes on himself the onerous to justify his claims. I am familiar with the works of the authors you mention; they present a good argument that lisp is a fine language for fine works. It is an entirely different argument to assert that, merely through the use of lisp, you will revolutionize the world. That, as I read it, is the claim made by the original author. It is that claim which has gone unsubstantiated, for years. The rest of you--incidentally, no need to use exclusionary language: we are all friend here--need do nothing. Mr. Datskovskiy has some code to deliver. A bootloader in two years is no accomplishment, though Mr. Datskovskiy has excelled in punditry in this period.

asciilifeform 15y ago
Original author speaking. If you actually read the blog (unbearable ordeal, I understand) you would know that Lisp (in available incarnations on available hardware) is not enough: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 Let's see how much of an OS and hardware architecture you can design in several years - without using a single line of code written by another person. Starting with the NAND gate - because that is where you will have to start if you truly intend to avoid recapitulating the mistakes of the past three decades. There was no sequel to the bootloader - I have been occupied with reverse-engineering the bitstream format of a major brand of FPGA (no naming names) in order to dispense with the proprietary x86 toolchain (and eventually with the abomination called Verilog.) Publishing incremental progress in bite-sized chunks is vastly over-rated. It wastes everyone's time and contributes to the proliferation of hideously ragtag systems reminiscent of "Junkyard Wars" (aka much of the software industry.) Punditry, on the other hand, is a relaxing and inexpensive hobby. The hosting bill for the past year of the blog was around $30. Most of my time is spent working on unrelated efforts which I am not at liberty to make public. Currently, they leave precious-little time and energy for my long-term (think lifetime) project. Feel free, of course, to imagine that I am an idler sitting in an armchair drinking the days away, if it makes you happy.
- troutwine 15y ago
  Clearly you are a man of strong opinion. You are also needlessly rude and insufferably self-important. I apologize that you took my critique so personally, without, of course, apologizing for the critique itself. May you succeed in your ambition.
- wnoise 15y ago
  > I have been occupied with reverse-engineering the bitstream format of a major brand of FPGA (no naming names) in order to dispense with the proprietary x86 toolchain (and eventually with the abomination called Verilog.) I sincerely hope you succeed. Verilog needs to be killed and replaced with something saner.