5 ms·

On some level it's not about should or shouldn't. The local government has the power to force a company to comply via a variety of enforcement tactics. There's

On some level it's not about should or shouldn't. The local government has the power to force a company to comply via a variety of enforcement tactics. There's no practical way for a company, on its own, to refuse orders from a government, unless they are willing to do as Google did in China so long ago and exit the country. One question that I do think bears inspection is whether governments should offer assistance to companies mostly owned domestically that do business abroad. The US government could enter the fight on Facebook's behalf and force a better result. But that would require the USG to spend international political capital on behalf of the oppressed citizens of arbitrary foreign countries. It might be a better world if we did, but historically this has not been something we spend many resources on unless there is a geopolitical end that benefits us.

curryst 6y ago
We also have a not great reputation as Team America: World Police where were already perceived to be sticking our fingers where they don't belong. A last thought is that involving the USG is going to create a vastly unequal amount of pressure. Were going to have a lot of leverage over poor countries that depend on the US directly or indirectly for humanitarian aid, trade or military protection. Just take a look at what has happened to Cuba since we tried to change them. Still Communist, but now they also have tons of humanitarian issues because they lack access to a close first world trading partner. The regimes also don't seem any less brutal. I also hate that the USG leaning on a country usually makes the citizens miserable, not the government. Just as an example, dictator in Blahland says Facebook has to ban these 15 journalists. Facebook refuses, dictator blocks Facebook. USG steps in and demands that they unblock Facebook, or we withold humanitarian aid. The dictator says fine, it's not like he/she is going to starve. We withold aid, causing famine and instability in the region. At the end of that, are we really the good guys? The journalists still have no access, Facebook is still blocked, and now there's an escalating humanitarian crisis. I'm not well versed in politics though, perhaps there are more surgical means to apply pressure.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  You're absolutely right, our reputation right now is not great, because of the purposes for which we've deployed our power. You could imagine a world where we actually deploy it selflessly, but I don't know if that can really happen at an international level. It certainly hasn't yet.
  - CyanBird 6y ago
    > but I don't know if that can really happen at an international level It already happens, look at all the countries with peacekeeper forces such as Uruguay
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      The U.S. has peacekeeper forces with the UN too. Unfortunately, I don't think the mere existence of these forces is enough to outweigh other issues in the mind of the international community. Uruguay might gain international standing by sending peacekeepers to the UN, but if so, it's only because they don't do anything adverse to offset that goodwill.
- Ocean_Someone 6y ago
  >Perhaps there are more surgical means to apply pressure. What happened when a leader tried to move off the US Dollar and onto the gold standard for international trade? 4th generation warfare using social media to organize a civil war resulting in the execution of the leader. What happened when a dictator tried to move off the US Dollar and onto the Euro for oil trade? Invaded in 2003 using a false pretense to delude the public in favor of supporting the initiative. Surgical enough?
sneak 6y ago
> There's no practical way for a company, on its own, to refuse orders from a government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio Not confirming nor refuting, and it's worth noting that the CenturyLink lines are now more than likely under bulk surveillance... but one wonders what things would be like if there were more people like Mark Klein and Joseph Nacchio and Ed Snowden. Some blame must be assigned to thinking creatures who succumb to learned helplessness in the face of illegal orders.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  I think this is a little different. Demanding legal authority is all well and good. In a country where there is strong rule of law, like the U.S., then you should be in good shape as long as your nose is squeaky clean. This guy would not likely have gone to jail if he didn't do crime. It's another story in a country where there is weak rule of law, or where legal authority gives the government powers that we in the U.S. consider oppressive.

curryst 6y ago

We also have a not great reputation as Team America: World Police where were already perceived to be sticking our fingers where they don't belong. A last thought is that involving the USG is going to create a vastly unequal amount of pressure. Were going to have a lot of leverage over poor countries that depend on the US directly or indirectly for humanitarian aid, trade or military protection. Just take a look at what has happened to Cuba since we tried to change them. Still Communist, but now they also have tons of humanitarian issues because they lack access to a close first world trading partner. The regimes also don't seem any less brutal. I also hate that the USG leaning on a country usually makes the citizens miserable, not the government. Just as an example, dictator in Blahland says Facebook has to ban these 15 journalists. Facebook refuses, dictator blocks Facebook. USG steps in and demands that they unblock Facebook, or we withold humanitarian aid. The dictator says fine, it's not like he/she is going to starve. We withold aid, causing famine and instability in the region. At the end of that, are we really the good guys? The journalists still have no access, Facebook is still blocked, and now there's an escalating humanitarian crisis. I'm not well versed in politics though, perhaps there are more surgical means to apply pressure.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
You're absolutely right, our reputation right now is not great, because of the purposes for which we've deployed our power. You could imagine a world where we actually deploy it selflessly, but I don't know if that can really happen at an international level. It certainly hasn't yet.
- CyanBird 6y ago
  > but I don't know if that can really happen at an international level It already happens, look at all the countries with peacekeeper forces such as Uruguay
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    The U.S. has peacekeeper forces with the UN too. Unfortunately, I don't think the mere existence of these forces is enough to outweigh other issues in the mind of the international community. Uruguay might gain international standing by sending peacekeepers to the UN, but if so, it's only because they don't do anything adverse to offset that goodwill.
Ocean_Someone 6y ago
>Perhaps there are more surgical means to apply pressure. What happened when a leader tried to move off the US Dollar and onto the gold standard for international trade? 4th generation warfare using social media to organize a civil war resulting in the execution of the leader. What happened when a dictator tried to move off the US Dollar and onto the Euro for oil trade? Invaded in 2003 using a false pretense to delude the public in favor of supporting the initiative. Surgical enough?

sneak 6y ago

> There's no practical way for a company, on its own, to refuse orders from a government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio Not confirming nor refuting, and it's worth noting that the CenturyLink lines are now more than likely under bulk surveillance... but one wonders what things would be like if there were more people like Mark Klein and Joseph Nacchio and Ed Snowden. Some blame must be assigned to thinking creatures who succumb to learned helplessness in the face of illegal orders.

asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
I think this is a little different. Demanding legal authority is all well and good. In a country where there is strong rule of law, like the U.S., then you should be in good shape as long as your nose is squeaky clean. This guy would not likely have gone to jail if he didn't do crime. It's another story in a country where there is weak rule of law, or where legal authority gives the government powers that we in the U.S. consider oppressive.