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Also the premise, plot and set were dire too. I think the only bit that made any sense was the section 31 stuff in the later film.

by qz2 6y ago

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Section 31 has been completely modified throughout the years in Star Trek. When it was first introduced in Deep Space Nine, it was an extremist rogue branch of Starfleet. It did not officially exist; was technically illegal; and many members of Starfleet attempted to capture it's members — but it was nevertheless protected by various powerful figures in the U.F.P. who felt it's continued existence was necessary. Enterprise changed nothing about this and indeed Archer had never heard of it's existence and Section 31 sabotaged his ship and Reed was court-martialed for being a member. Then in Into Darkness, it became a secret branch of Starfleet that was nevertheless completely legal, but most officers were not aware of it's existence. And finally in Discovery, it was a known, fully legal branch. That Discovery also took place before D.S.9. made it all the more bizarre that most Starfleet officers in D.S.9. had never heard of the existence of an organization which was publicly known a century prior.
- qz2 6y ago
  Thanks for taking the time to write that up - genuinely appreciated. Some good points. I've watched Discovery, Enterprise all the way through but not DS9 so that covers some gaps.
  - odorousrex 6y ago
    DS9 is peak Star Trek for me. It took what I loved about TNG and gave it the "Babylon 5" Arc treatment with a bit more darkness to it. I would highly recommend watching the whole series. It's available now on just about every streaming service.
    - qz2 6y ago
      On it :) I've watched the first three since I posted that.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  Are you mixing together original universe and Kelvin universe?
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  > And finally in Discovery, it was a known, fully legal branch. That Discovery also took place before D.S.9. made it all the more bizarre that most Starfleet officers in D.S.9. had never heard of the existence of an organization which was publicly known a century prior. Discovery was a deeply classified ship that was further reclassified under Klingon War Intelligence, Prime Directive, the unspoken Mirror Universe Prime Directive, and Temporal Prime Directive due to various actions Discovery has taken part of over the course of its deployment. Supposedly no one on DS9 ever heard of Discovery (or should have heard of Discovery) either. So it's not entirely unfair for Discovery to have a lot of deep, direct knowledge of Section 31, more than most ships and crews would have, given their existing high classification level likely meant they had high clearance in return. In addition Season 2 offers some evidence for why Section 31 was nearly destroyed and likely went into hibernation through most of the TOS and TNG years, including the death of high ranking officers, a ton of institutional knowledge in the loss of their computer files, and the extra-temporal extrication of the person most groomed to likely take over the organization (Georgiou). (That said, I still think Section 31 is one of the dumber things added to Star Trek lore, and the DS9 writers can complain all that they want that Section 31 has been almost nothing but misused from their original intentions since they created it, but it is the DS9 writers' own fault for retconning Section 31 into the Federation charter in the first place and not expecting for everyone working elsewhere in the timeline to wonder or be questioned "What would Section 31 be doing right now?")

Also the premise, plot and set were dire too. I think the only bit that made any sense was the section 31 stuff in the later film.

by qz2 6y ago

Also the premise, plot and set were dire too. I think the only bit that made any sense was the section 31 stuff in the later film.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

Section 31 has been completely modified throughout the years in Star Trek. When it was first introduced in Deep Space Nine, it was an extremist rogue branch of Starfleet. It did not officially exist; was technically illegal; and many members of Starfleet attempted to capture it's members — but it was nevertheless protected by various powerful figures in the U.F.P. who felt it's continued existence was necessary. Enterprise changed nothing about this and indeed Archer had never heard of it's existence and Section 31 sabotaged his ship and Reed was court-martialed for being a member. Then in Into Darkness, it became a secret branch of Starfleet that was nevertheless completely legal, but most officers were not aware of it's existence. And finally in Discovery, it was a known, fully legal branch. That Discovery also took place before D.S.9. made it all the more bizarre that most Starfleet officers in D.S.9. had never heard of the existence of an organization which was publicly known a century prior.

qz2 6y ago
Thanks for taking the time to write that up - genuinely appreciated. Some good points. I've watched Discovery, Enterprise all the way through but not DS9 so that covers some gaps.
- odorousrex 6y ago
  DS9 is peak Star Trek for me. It took what I loved about TNG and gave it the "Babylon 5" Arc treatment with a bit more darkness to it. I would highly recommend watching the whole series. It's available now on just about every streaming service.
  - qz2 6y ago
    On it :) I've watched the first three since I posted that.
amanaplanacanal 6y ago
Are you mixing together original universe and Kelvin universe?
WorldMaker 6y ago
> And finally in Discovery, it was a known, fully legal branch. That Discovery also took place before D.S.9. made it all the more bizarre that most Starfleet officers in D.S.9. had never heard of the existence of an organization which was publicly known a century prior. Discovery was a deeply classified ship that was further reclassified under Klingon War Intelligence, Prime Directive, the unspoken Mirror Universe Prime Directive, and Temporal Prime Directive due to various actions Discovery has taken part of over the course of its deployment. Supposedly no one on DS9 ever heard of Discovery (or should have heard of Discovery) either. So it's not entirely unfair for Discovery to have a lot of deep, direct knowledge of Section 31, more than most ships and crews would have, given their existing high classification level likely meant they had high clearance in return. In addition Season 2 offers some evidence for why Section 31 was nearly destroyed and likely went into hibernation through most of the TOS and TNG years, including the death of high ranking officers, a ton of institutional knowledge in the loss of their computer files, and the extra-temporal extrication of the person most groomed to likely take over the organization (Georgiou). (That said, I still think Section 31 is one of the dumber things added to Star Trek lore, and the DS9 writers can complain all that they want that Section 31 has been almost nothing but misused from their original intentions since they created it, but it is the DS9 writers' own fault for retconning Section 31 into the Federation charter in the first place and not expecting for everyone working elsewhere in the timeline to wonder or be questioned "What would Section 31 be doing right now?")