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> accepted her resignation immediately In saying "resignation", CNN is presenting the management framing -- as many people have pointed out, she was fired. B

> accepted her resignation immediately In saying "resignation", CNN is presenting the management framing -- as many people have pointed out, she was fired. Bloomberg states both sides of that: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/google-ai-researchers-lay-out-demands-escalating-internal-fight https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/google-ai... As does The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/22158501/timnit-gebru-team-google-public-statement-fired https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/7/22158501/timnit-gebru-tea...

ergocoder 6y ago
I have no idea why this matters. Timnit gave an ultimatum (i.e. do this or I'll leave). Google agreed to her condition of parting way. This is like I go to my boss and ask for a $1 billion dollars. Otherwise, I'll leave. Then, my boss decides that I should leave since the boss can't give me $1b. Then, I keep telling my friends that "well, I'm actually fired.". huh?
- thinkingemote 6y ago
  I understand it as the issue is whether this was constructive dismissal, a form of firing where the employee is forced to resign. Not sure if constructive dismissal is a thing in the US but it is in the UK.
  - themaninthedark 6y ago
    She did not have to say she was going to resign if her conditions were not met, she choose to do that. The company chose not to meet her conditions.
- GVIrish 6y ago
  She gave a set of conditions and stated that if they couldn't be met, that she would work with Google to schedule a resignation date. Google then cut off her corporate access and terminated her employment immediately, ergo, firing. If someone says, do this or I'll jump, and the other person pushes them, that's not the same thing as the person taking the leap on their own. The result might be the same, but the way the result was reached was different.
  - crusso 6y ago
    As someone who just learned about this kerfuffle a few minutes ago, that doesn't make sense to claim that she was fired. If you offer to resign if new conditions of employment aren't met and the company accepts your resignation without honoring your exact terms of schedule, it sounds like you largely were responsible for terminating your own employment. Claiming that you were "immediately fired" as she tweeted just sounds dishonest to me.
    - andrewprock 6y ago
      The GP illustration of jumping it being pushed is quite apt. Your comment suggests that if someone threatened to jump under certain circumstances but was instead pushed you would be ok with that. This isn't just a framing. She was fired. Now you may say "she was asking for it" but that doesn't change the fact that she was fired.
      - crusso 6y ago
        No, the jump/push analogy is too contorted to be meaningful. Employers and employees have a relationship that has processes that have common meanings and names like "resigned" or "fired". There's no accepted relationship if you push someone threatening to jump. You're just an a-hole committing assault and possibly murder. Is there a link to the letter that she sent? That could help to clarify.
        ergocoder 6y ago
        There is. You probably can Google for it. The demand is something around exposing the identities of the peers who reviewed and rejected her paper. If Google doesn't give her the identities of those peers, she say she will leave the company. Comparing to suicide is a bit much though. When considering death, everything else becomes secondary, so we can't use that analogy for comparison.
        andrewprock 6y ago
- Jabbles 6y ago
  > This is like I go to my boss and ask for a $1 billion dollars. How about if you go to your boss and demand that the racial discrimination you're experiencing stops? Since we don't have the original email, we can't tell. But I bet it's closer to my example than yours.
  - Nimitz14 6y ago
    Lol sure that must be why she hasn't published it. /s
  - bagacrap 6y ago
    I don't think there's debate about what her depends were. They were very concrete and referred to the paper review process.
- sib 6y ago
  Exactly. Employee: "If you don't fire my manager and give me a $1M bonus, I'm resigning, date to be confirmed." Company: "Ummmm, no. Thanks for resigning, let's make that date today."
InsomniacL 6y ago
"No one told me that I was fired." "Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation." https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364734418726912 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364734418726912
- bo1024 6y ago
  That's not quite the whole story. She set a deadline (a few weeks?) after which she would resign, and Google terminated her immediately that day.
  - throwaway19937 6y ago
    They didn't fire her; Google cut off her access and paid her through her notice period.

ergocoder 6y ago

I have no idea why this matters. Timnit gave an ultimatum (i.e. do this or I'll leave). Google agreed to her condition of parting way. This is like I go to my boss and ask for a $1 billion dollars. Otherwise, I'll leave. Then, my boss decides that I should leave since the boss can't give me $1b. Then, I keep telling my friends that "well, I'm actually fired.". huh?

thinkingemote 6y ago
I understand it as the issue is whether this was constructive dismissal, a form of firing where the employee is forced to resign. Not sure if constructive dismissal is a thing in the US but it is in the UK.
- themaninthedark 6y ago
  She did not have to say she was going to resign if her conditions were not met, she choose to do that. The company chose not to meet her conditions.
GVIrish 6y ago
She gave a set of conditions and stated that if they couldn't be met, that she would work with Google to schedule a resignation date. Google then cut off her corporate access and terminated her employment immediately, ergo, firing. If someone says, do this or I'll jump, and the other person pushes them, that's not the same thing as the person taking the leap on their own. The result might be the same, but the way the result was reached was different.
- crusso 6y ago
  As someone who just learned about this kerfuffle a few minutes ago, that doesn't make sense to claim that she was fired. If you offer to resign if new conditions of employment aren't met and the company accepts your resignation without honoring your exact terms of schedule, it sounds like you largely were responsible for terminating your own employment. Claiming that you were "immediately fired" as she tweeted just sounds dishonest to me.
  - andrewprock 6y ago
    The GP illustration of jumping it being pushed is quite apt. Your comment suggests that if someone threatened to jump under certain circumstances but was instead pushed you would be ok with that. This isn't just a framing. She was fired. Now you may say "she was asking for it" but that doesn't change the fact that she was fired.
    - crusso 6y ago
      No, the jump/push analogy is too contorted to be meaningful. Employers and employees have a relationship that has processes that have common meanings and names like "resigned" or "fired". There's no accepted relationship if you push someone threatening to jump. You're just an a-hole committing assault and possibly murder. Is there a link to the letter that she sent? That could help to clarify.
      - ergocoder 6y ago
        There is. You probably can Google for it. The demand is something around exposing the identities of the peers who reviewed and rejected her paper. If Google doesn't give her the identities of those peers, she say she will leave the company. Comparing to suicide is a bit much though. When considering death, everything else becomes secondary, so we can't use that analogy for comparison.
        andrewprock 6y ago
Jabbles 6y ago
> This is like I go to my boss and ask for a $1 billion dollars. How about if you go to your boss and demand that the racial discrimination you're experiencing stops? Since we don't have the original email, we can't tell. But I bet it's closer to my example than yours.
- Nimitz14 6y ago
  Lol sure that must be why she hasn't published it. /s
- bagacrap 6y ago
  I don't think there's debate about what her depends were. They were very concrete and referred to the paper review process.
sib 6y ago
Exactly. Employee: "If you don't fire my manager and give me a $1M bonus, I'm resigning, date to be confirmed." Company: "Ummmm, no. Thanks for resigning, let's make that date today."

InsomniacL 6y ago

"No one told me that I was fired." "Thanks for making your conditions clear. We cannot agree to #1 and #2 as you are requesting. We respect your decision to leave Google as a result, and we are accepting your resignation." https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364734418726912 https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1334364734418726912

bo1024 6y ago
That's not quite the whole story. She set a deadline (a few weeks?) after which she would resign, and Google terminated her immediately that day.
- throwaway19937 6y ago
  They didn't fire her; Google cut off her access and paid her through her notice period.