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Do people consider Snowden and Assange in the same league here? While Snowden seems to have been purely focused on exposing the spying mechanisms to influence t

Do people consider Snowden and Assange in the same league here? While Snowden seems to have been purely focused on exposing the spying mechanisms to influence that specific debate, it seems that Assange has gone quite a bit more political here? I'm sure my very superficial understanding of these stories gets a lot of details wrong, but didn't Assange purportedly coordinate with the Trump campaign to leak information at a significant time relative to the 2016 election?

spicyramen 6y ago
And?
- sverhagen 6y ago
  And... I would find clemency for Snowden an unexpected and unmitigated success. I would find clemency for Assange somewhat dubious, given the association with the Trump campaign. If that link (between Assange and the Trump campaign) really exists, wouldn't it be just more of Trump's transactional (awarding support or loyalty) pardoning... real or perceived at the least? Edit: clarifications in parenthesis.
  - waheoo 6y ago
    What do you mean by link? What do you mean by transaction? Edit because downvotes usually mean people didn't understand what I meant it in this case probably thought I was getting at something. What link / transaction do you think happened between trump and Assange?
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    Yes, but Assange's persecution was so clearly politically motivated that the benefits of a pardon outweigh the cons.
  - newnamenewface 6y ago
    Which connection? So far as I understand it there was no definitional collusion between Trump and Russia specifically but I don't know about Assange.
    - ghayes 6y ago
      Roger Stone, a former Trump campaign advisor and friend, is a convicted felon due to his communication with Julian Assange and his subsequent cover-up during the FBI investigation. Trump commuted Roger Stone's sentence.
      - chrisco255 6y ago
        The entire Trump-Russia investigation was a political hit job and corruption of the highest order from our intelligence agencies. John Brennan knew this was hatched for and paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC and his note to Obama on this said as much: "According to the declassified notes, Brennan and the U.S. intelligence community knew months prior to the 2016 election that the collusion smear was the result of a campaign operation hatched by the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. “We’re getting additional insight into Russian activites from [REDACTED],” Brennan’s handwritten notes state. “Cite alleged approval by Hillary Clinton–on 26 July–of a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisers to villify [sic] Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by the Russian security services.”" https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifies-handwritten-notes-from-john-brennan-2016-cia-referral-on-clinton-campaigns-collusion-operation/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifi... So our intelligence community had exculpatory evidence exonerating Trump and continued to peddle it anyways and used it to justify a three year sham of an investigation, intimidating and entrapping people for making false statements along the way. It was all made up based on the completely discredited Steele Dossier.
        JamesBarney 6y ago
        > May 9, 2017, President Donald Trump dismissed former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, James Comey, who had been leading an ongoing Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigation into links between Trump associates and Russian officials.[51][52] This investigation, code named Crossfire Hurricane, began in July 2016 after the Australian government advised US authorities that George Papadopoulos, a foreign policy advisor in the Trump campaign, had met with one of their diplomats in May 2016 and "suggested the Trump team had received some kind of suggestion from Russia" that Russia could release information that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.[53][54] - from Wikipedia This is why there was an investigation into russian collusion.
wmf 6y ago
I agree that Assange's behavior has been worse, but his treatment during his extradition also seems disproportionately punitive.
toyg 6y ago
To the masses they are both “those hackers who revealed secrets”. They occupy roughly the same political space - and arguably Assange was made to suffer significantly more than Snowden. Pardoning one but not the other would be politically inconsistent.

spicyramen 6y ago

And?

sverhagen 6y ago
And... I would find clemency for Snowden an unexpected and unmitigated success. I would find clemency for Assange somewhat dubious, given the association with the Trump campaign. If that link (between Assange and the Trump campaign) really exists, wouldn't it be just more of Trump's transactional (awarding support or loyalty) pardoning... real or perceived at the least? Edit: clarifications in parenthesis.
- waheoo 6y ago
  What do you mean by link? What do you mean by transaction? Edit because downvotes usually mean people didn't understand what I meant it in this case probably thought I was getting at something. What link / transaction do you think happened between trump and Assange?
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  Yes, but Assange's persecution was so clearly politically motivated that the benefits of a pardon outweigh the cons.
- newnamenewface 6y ago
  Which connection? So far as I understand it there was no definitional collusion between Trump and Russia specifically but I don't know about Assange.
  - ghayes 6y ago
    Roger Stone, a former Trump campaign advisor and friend, is a convicted felon due to his communication with Julian Assange and his subsequent cover-up during the FBI investigation. Trump commuted Roger Stone's sentence.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      The entire Trump-Russia investigation was a political hit job and corruption of the highest order from our intelligence agencies. John Brennan knew this was hatched for and paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC and his note to Obama on this said as much: "According to the declassified notes, Brennan and the U.S. intelligence community knew months prior to the 2016 election that the collusion smear was the result of a campaign operation hatched by the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. “We’re getting additional insight into Russian activites from [REDACTED],” Brennan’s handwritten notes state. “Cite alleged approval by Hillary Clinton–on 26 July–of a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisers to villify [sic] Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by the Russian security services.”" https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifies-handwritten-notes-from-john-brennan-2016-cia-referral-on-clinton-campaigns-collusion-operation/ https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/06/breaking-dni-declassifi... So our intelligence community had exculpatory evidence exonerating Trump and continued to peddle it anyways and used it to justify a three year sham of an investigation, intimidating and entrapping people for making false statements along the way. It was all made up based on the completely discredited Steele Dossier.
      - JamesBarney 6y ago
        > May 9, 2017, President Donald Trump dismissed former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, James Comey, who had been leading an ongoing Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigation into links between Trump associates and Russian officials.[51][52] This investigation, code named Crossfire Hurricane, began in July 2016 after the Australian government advised US authorities that George Papadopoulos, a foreign policy advisor in the Trump campaign, had met with one of their diplomats in May 2016 and "suggested the Trump team had received some kind of suggestion from Russia" that Russia could release information that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.[53][54] - from Wikipedia This is why there was an investigation into russian collusion.

wmf 6y ago

I agree that Assange's behavior has been worse, but his treatment during his extradition also seems disproportionately punitive.

toyg 6y ago

To the masses they are both “those hackers who revealed secrets”. They occupy roughly the same political space - and arguably Assange was made to suffer significantly more than Snowden. Pardoning one but not the other would be politically inconsistent.