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> everyone (including him) gets a nice payday and can move on to some other area? This is what bugs me the most about the corporate landscape. You can be inco

> everyone (including him) gets a nice payday and can move on to some other area? This is what bugs me the most about the corporate landscape. You can be incompetent & cause huge damage to a business, but if your a c-level, your usually given the option of leaving quietly, with a nice payout and then continuing your career like nothing ever happened. Just wait 6-12 months and you'll see this CEO pop up at another company, and on their website in his bio it will read something like "Implemented and executed a revolutionary vertical & dynamic cyber and security strategy at SolarWinds saving the business $xxx"

zimpenfish 6y ago
See also: Sports management
Melting_Harps 6y ago
> This is what bugs me the most about the corporate landscape. It's not just n the Corporate World, either: the failing up method of success is prevalent in government, too. Which often has a revolving door into certain Industries for some reason... I think this has more to do with widespread corruption within certain set class of people in Society than it does as a single isolated issue of incompetent individuals. The goals shouldn't be to get those standards to apply to a c-level and below employee, it should be to phase away with those incentives completely. Elon mentioned the over MBA-ization ruining US business culture and innovation, which is no doubt a factor; but to be honest the lack of accountability and that actual punitive punishments for their mistakes seem to often be non-existent are for me way more systemic and a greater drag on overall progress, since the wrong incentives (like this) are already baked in to the process of a 'successful career' by default.
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  > It's not just n the Corporate World, either: the failing up method of success is prevalent in government, too. Which often has a revolving door into certain Industries for some reason... It’s important to define what qualifies as success. Successfully maximising capital extraction and gains for the subset that are relevant to your career may be more important than successfully executing business / government strategy for shareholders / the public.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Successfully maximising capital extraction and gains for the subset that are relevant to your career And this is the very crux of the issue, and what is being portayed as a 'successful career' is nothing more insulting embellishment based on than vulture/cronyist practices operating under the false veil of capitalism: short sighted thinking coupled with an perverse culture that enables this leads to this wide spread corruption, be it in banking/corp World or in Government. One doesn't have to look very far to see the parallels to this pandemic and that of 2008 to see nothing really changed, and its made it clear that the US may be the current hegemon but it's standing in the World has significantly diminished in my Lifetime. Naomi Klein's shock doctrine outlines this very well, and unless this very thing is addressed we're seriously screwed as a Species. We don't need more Elizabeth Homes, Bernie Madoffs, Blyth Masters, Lloyd Blankfiens or Jamie Dimons and we should discourage any more from being created, because upon even the slightest amount of scrutiny you realize they're incredibly stupid and are failures at doing anything but screwing up and putting themselves in a position getting a massive pay out from it--almost always State subsidized. Instead we ask more and pay less of those very people who keep the system from completely toppling over while wealth get even more and more concentrated. It should be very clear that a country that funnels this much into the investment class while 1/4 of the country is unemployed and ask its medical workers to function without PPE is a reflection of these misdeeds. And that the illusion cannot be maintained anymore.
WJW 6y ago
You don't even have to be a c-level. Line employees are hired all the time in new companies, regardless of the wreckage they wrought at their previous employer(s). No need to wait 6-12 months even. The only thing missing is a big payout on leaving but that is more a function of c-level managers having good leverage and negotiation skills than a result of their competence or lack thereof.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  I’m more inclined to give line employees a break though, because toxic management is so common. Sure, there are bad apples. But the prevalence is way overblown and the “one bad hire” who is a “toxic employee” is mostly a myth. Rather it’s usually management setting things up for failure, not listening to employees, not giving support or required resources. And the line employee will get scapegoated while the bad management a few levels above will fail up and deflect any blame.
hobby-coder-guy 6y ago
You’re
x87678r 6y ago
> "Implemented and executed a revolutionary vertical & dynamic cyber and security strategy at SolarWinds saving the business $xxx" That's pretty much on every dev's resume as well, despite their buggy project getting hated by everyone and shut down.
prirun 6y ago
I have never understood how blaming the CEO for a code bug makes sense. I doubt the CEO coded it. For big policies, sure - blame the CEO. But for things like a security vulnerability? No.
- bradstewart 6y ago
  This goes far beyond a simple coding bug. The CEO should be aware of where large risks might lie and dedicate the proper resources to managing them. In a company that sells these types of products to these types of customers, security is paramount.
- willcipriano 6y ago
  Doesn't that knife cut both ways? If the CEO isn't responsible at all for the product then it's hard to claim that they had much to do with the success of the company.
- ric2b 6y ago
  A server with the password "solarwinds123" isn't a coding bug, it's an obvious lack of security audits.

zimpenfish 6y ago

See also: Sports management

Melting_Harps 6y ago

> This is what bugs me the most about the corporate landscape. It's not just n the Corporate World, either: the failing up method of success is prevalent in government, too. Which often has a revolving door into certain Industries for some reason... I think this has more to do with widespread corruption within certain set class of people in Society than it does as a single isolated issue of incompetent individuals. The goals shouldn't be to get those standards to apply to a c-level and below employee, it should be to phase away with those incentives completely. Elon mentioned the over MBA-ization ruining US business culture and innovation, which is no doubt a factor; but to be honest the lack of accountability and that actual punitive punishments for their mistakes seem to often be non-existent are for me way more systemic and a greater drag on overall progress, since the wrong incentives (like this) are already baked in to the process of a 'successful career' by default.

oarsinsync 6y ago
> It's not just n the Corporate World, either: the failing up method of success is prevalent in government, too. Which often has a revolving door into certain Industries for some reason... It’s important to define what qualifies as success. Successfully maximising capital extraction and gains for the subset that are relevant to your career may be more important than successfully executing business / government strategy for shareholders / the public.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > Successfully maximising capital extraction and gains for the subset that are relevant to your career And this is the very crux of the issue, and what is being portayed as a 'successful career' is nothing more insulting embellishment based on than vulture/cronyist practices operating under the false veil of capitalism: short sighted thinking coupled with an perverse culture that enables this leads to this wide spread corruption, be it in banking/corp World or in Government. One doesn't have to look very far to see the parallels to this pandemic and that of 2008 to see nothing really changed, and its made it clear that the US may be the current hegemon but it's standing in the World has significantly diminished in my Lifetime. Naomi Klein's shock doctrine outlines this very well, and unless this very thing is addressed we're seriously screwed as a Species. We don't need more Elizabeth Homes, Bernie Madoffs, Blyth Masters, Lloyd Blankfiens or Jamie Dimons and we should discourage any more from being created, because upon even the slightest amount of scrutiny you realize they're incredibly stupid and are failures at doing anything but screwing up and putting themselves in a position getting a massive pay out from it--almost always State subsidized. Instead we ask more and pay less of those very people who keep the system from completely toppling over while wealth get even more and more concentrated. It should be very clear that a country that funnels this much into the investment class while 1/4 of the country is unemployed and ask its medical workers to function without PPE is a reflection of these misdeeds. And that the illusion cannot be maintained anymore.

WJW 6y ago

You don't even have to be a c-level. Line employees are hired all the time in new companies, regardless of the wreckage they wrought at their previous employer(s). No need to wait 6-12 months even. The only thing missing is a big payout on leaving but that is more a function of c-level managers having good leverage and negotiation skills than a result of their competence or lack thereof.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
I’m more inclined to give line employees a break though, because toxic management is so common. Sure, there are bad apples. But the prevalence is way overblown and the “one bad hire” who is a “toxic employee” is mostly a myth. Rather it’s usually management setting things up for failure, not listening to employees, not giving support or required resources. And the line employee will get scapegoated while the bad management a few levels above will fail up and deflect any blame.

hobby-coder-guy 6y ago

You’re

x87678r 6y ago

> "Implemented and executed a revolutionary vertical & dynamic cyber and security strategy at SolarWinds saving the business $xxx" That's pretty much on every dev's resume as well, despite their buggy project getting hated by everyone and shut down.

prirun 6y ago

I have never understood how blaming the CEO for a code bug makes sense. I doubt the CEO coded it. For big policies, sure - blame the CEO. But for things like a security vulnerability? No.

bradstewart 6y ago
This goes far beyond a simple coding bug. The CEO should be aware of where large risks might lie and dedicate the proper resources to managing them. In a company that sells these types of products to these types of customers, security is paramount.
willcipriano 6y ago
Doesn't that knife cut both ways? If the CEO isn't responsible at all for the product then it's hard to claim that they had much to do with the success of the company.
ric2b 6y ago
A server with the password "solarwinds123" isn't a coding bug, it's an obvious lack of security audits.