7 ms·

our underfunded schools Sigh. At what level of funding will you finally consider it adequate?

wiredfool 16y ago
I'll settle for "not another 20% cut this year". (hey downvoters -- that's what's happening to my kid's school. It's a little personal)
- anamax 16y ago
  If that school was in CA, we've been increasing spending for decades without any benefit. Since increasing spending didn't help, any harm from cutting spending is sabotage or incompetence by the public school folk. We're spending enough money, so if you're not getting what you want, you need to talk to the folks who are in charge of turning that money into decent education.
  - wiredfool 16y ago
    Nope, Washington State. I'm already volunteering in the classroom, working on getting the library sorted out, figuring out where we can help with enrichment classes next year (where enrichment == not reading/riting/rithmatic), and getting the chairs recovered because the cushions are worn out. And they (the state legislature) is trying to cut all funding for our school secretary and remove any janitorial services. Because, apparently, they don't realize that the secretaries actually run the damn place. I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids. We've got one that we wish we could ease out the door, but we've got a few that are just great. That is, if we get to keep them, because their hours will be cut and the district reshuffled.
    - anamax 16y ago
      > I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids. I didn't suggest otherwise. I said that in CA, like many other places in the US, we've been increasing spending on public education for decades and haven't gotten any benefit from that extra money. It may well be that this money never made it to the classroom and that the classroom is being cut while "the black hole" is being protected. My point is that enough money is going into "the system" as a whole. You're saying "enough money" isn't going where it's needed. That's a different problem, one that won't be solved by adding money. Doesn't it bother you that your kids are being used as an excuse to line someone's pockets? (And no, I don't mean tax payers.)
      - wiredfool 16y ago
        So, Who's pockets are being lined? It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy. I'd be happy to cut it, but there are enough kids on free lunch that it's really important. It's not the teachers, they keep getting cut. It's not the administrators, there aren't that many of them, and they've been cutting right along with the teachers. And the administrative load doesn't get smaller, since there are an ever multiplying number of federal compliance issues. It's not maintenance, as they don't have the resources they need to keep the aging infrastructure going. They could double their staff for a year and still not get through stuff. It's not transportation, they're getting hit by fuel costs. It's not the secretaries, they're getting hit too. The text books, meh, most of them are pretty old. Maybe it's technology, but that's a separate levy and a different pool of money. We've got old buildings, one should have been closed years ago. That could save a teacher or two per year, but there's community pressure to keep it open. Frankly, we spend less on education here per student per year than I would spend to send a kid to daycare for the same time. And they're expected to learn enough to compete in the modern world.
        russell_h 16y ago
        You should take a look at what is being spent on teacher benefits. The school district in my hometown (Anchorage, Alaska) signed a contract whereby they're obligated to pay $1180/month for healthcare for each teacher.
        jbooth 16y ago
        Yeah, healthcare costs have been out of control for a decade. But that's not the teachers' fault. I don't know Alaska but that seems high, Anchorage should get a better deal with their provider.
        chipsy 16y ago
        Consultants.
        anamax 15y ago
        > It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy. Are you confusing the amount of money spent with the amount of benefit delivered? I note that you're looking at the school level and you're guessing at spending. Let's look at it from the other side. Suppose that you wanted to educate 25 kids. Would it cost more than $187k? I ask because $7,500 * 25 is $187,500.
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  If that's what's happening in your area, you need to understand that yours is a one-in-a-million area. Where I live, and everywhere that I'm aware of, has monotonically increasing annual school budgets. Or are you one of the people that counts a reduction of the proposed increase as a "cut", so even though you're getting more than last year, it's lower than what you asked for, so you consider it a cut?
  - wiredfool 16y ago
    Nope, those are real cuts. And really, it's at the very least, 1 in 50, since the budget at the state level in WA is being balanced by axing a lot of school funding. Federal funding is also way down this year. Our school district has had to cut teachers for the last few years(I think 5 by now). They do it based on seniority, within each endorsement. Now, there are no teachers with less than 14 years of teaching experience in the district.
  - nitrogen 16y ago
    In a monotonically increasing population, a monotonically increasing budget can still result in cuts in important metrics like per-pupil spending.
    - CWuestefeld 16y ago
      In principle, yes. But that's not what's happening -- at least in my district, where I know the numbers. The per-student expense is also increasingly monotonically.
      - nitrogen 16y ago
        If only that were the case everywhere. As far as I know from the teachers among my friends and family, in my state budgets are being cut, class sizes are increasing (there are more students than desks in many classes), teacher count is decreasing, the curriculum is being dumbed down, etc.
        16y ago
- Duff 16y ago
  My parent's school taxes were $1,800 in 2000. Today? $6,500. From 2006 when I bought my home to today, my school taxes are up over 60%. This year, the school wants a 6% increase. The library district 25%. My pay has been frozen for 3 years. Of course I live in New York, where the teacher's union essentially governs the place. During those timeframes the local schools have gotten worse by just about every measure. So the technique of paying 20% of the teachers $100k+ isn't working.
georgieporgie 16y ago
I would like to see a breakdown of financial distribution between skills-building classes versus special education. I imagine that metal shops are closing due to legal liability while special ed/needs spending is up due to legal obligation.
- jbooth 16y ago
  ++, when I was in local politics we had a single student who cost the district 100k a year, several more at 20-50k, and the average spending per student was around 8k. Federal and state legislators can pass an unfunded mandate ("I will not stand by while we ignore these kids"), do a photo op, then cut the funding going to local districts and take credit for balancing the state budget. I'm not advocating eugenics or anything, just pointing out that after all the rhetoric and grandstanding, it's the school districts that wind up eating it.
Kadin 16y ago
When the average person who comes out of it can get themselves a living-wage job without loading up on debt for "higher education" in order to learn a marketable skill? High schools used to concentrate on teaching young adults what they needed to know in order to survive independently. At some point they stopped doing that, perhaps because they're still trying to teach them to read. But that seems like a problem.
- jerfelix 16y ago
  So how is this change in strategy a "funding" problem?
  - nitrogen 16y ago
    Funding is being allocated to the wrong areas. Therefore it is a funding problem.

I'll settle for "not another 20% cut this year". (hey downvoters -- that's what's happening to my kid's school. It's a little personal)

anamax 16y ago
If that school was in CA, we've been increasing spending for decades without any benefit. Since increasing spending didn't help, any harm from cutting spending is sabotage or incompetence by the public school folk. We're spending enough money, so if you're not getting what you want, you need to talk to the folks who are in charge of turning that money into decent education.
- wiredfool 16y ago
  Nope, Washington State. I'm already volunteering in the classroom, working on getting the library sorted out, figuring out where we can help with enrichment classes next year (where enrichment == not reading/riting/rithmatic), and getting the chairs recovered because the cushions are worn out. And they (the state legislature) is trying to cut all funding for our school secretary and remove any janitorial services. Because, apparently, they don't realize that the secretaries actually run the damn place. I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids. We've got one that we wish we could ease out the door, but we've got a few that are just great. That is, if we get to keep them, because their hours will be cut and the district reshuffled.
  - anamax 16y ago
    > I'm not sure where you are, but my experience is that most of the teachers are pretty good and care for the kids. I didn't suggest otherwise. I said that in CA, like many other places in the US, we've been increasing spending on public education for decades and haven't gotten any benefit from that extra money. It may well be that this money never made it to the classroom and that the classroom is being cut while "the black hole" is being protected. My point is that enough money is going into "the system" as a whole. You're saying "enough money" isn't going where it's needed. That's a different problem, one that won't be solved by adding money. Doesn't it bother you that your kids are being used as an excuse to line someone's pockets? (And no, I don't mean tax payers.)
    - wiredfool 16y ago
      So, Who's pockets are being lined? It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy. I'd be happy to cut it, but there are enough kids on free lunch that it's really important. It's not the teachers, they keep getting cut. It's not the administrators, there aren't that many of them, and they've been cutting right along with the teachers. And the administrative load doesn't get smaller, since there are an ever multiplying number of federal compliance issues. It's not maintenance, as they don't have the resources they need to keep the aging infrastructure going. They could double their staff for a year and still not get through stuff. It's not transportation, they're getting hit by fuel costs. It's not the secretaries, they're getting hit too. The text books, meh, most of them are pretty old. Maybe it's technology, but that's a separate levy and a different pool of money. We've got old buildings, one should have been closed years ago. That could save a teacher or two per year, but there's community pressure to keep it open. Frankly, we spend less on education here per student per year than I would spend to send a kid to daycare for the same time. And they're expected to learn enough to compete in the modern world.
      - russell_h 16y ago
        You should take a look at what is being spent on teacher benefits. The school district in my hometown (Anchorage, Alaska) signed a contract whereby they're obligated to pay $1180/month for healthcare for each teacher.
        jbooth 16y ago
        Yeah, healthcare costs have been out of control for a decade. But that's not the teachers' fault. I don't know Alaska but that seems high, Anchorage should get a better deal with their provider.
      - chipsy 16y ago
        Consultants.
      - anamax 15y ago
        > It's not the food service, their contract is really crappy. Are you confusing the amount of money spent with the amount of benefit delivered? I note that you're looking at the school level and you're guessing at spending. Let's look at it from the other side. Suppose that you wanted to educate 25 kids. Would it cost more than $187k? I ask because $7,500 * 25 is $187,500.
CWuestefeld 16y ago
If that's what's happening in your area, you need to understand that yours is a one-in-a-million area. Where I live, and everywhere that I'm aware of, has monotonically increasing annual school budgets. Or are you one of the people that counts a reduction of the proposed increase as a "cut", so even though you're getting more than last year, it's lower than what you asked for, so you consider it a cut?
- wiredfool 16y ago
  Nope, those are real cuts. And really, it's at the very least, 1 in 50, since the budget at the state level in WA is being balanced by axing a lot of school funding. Federal funding is also way down this year. Our school district has had to cut teachers for the last few years(I think 5 by now). They do it based on seniority, within each endorsement. Now, there are no teachers with less than 14 years of teaching experience in the district.
- nitrogen 16y ago
  In a monotonically increasing population, a monotonically increasing budget can still result in cuts in important metrics like per-pupil spending.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    In principle, yes. But that's not what's happening -- at least in my district, where I know the numbers. The per-student expense is also increasingly monotonically.
    - nitrogen 16y ago
      If only that were the case everywhere. As far as I know from the teachers among my friends and family, in my state budgets are being cut, class sizes are increasing (there are more students than desks in many classes), teacher count is decreasing, the curriculum is being dumbed down, etc.
      - 16y ago
Duff 16y ago
My parent's school taxes were $1,800 in 2000. Today? $6,500. From 2006 when I bought my home to today, my school taxes are up over 60%. This year, the school wants a 6% increase. The library district 25%. My pay has been frozen for 3 years. Of course I live in New York, where the teacher's union essentially governs the place. During those timeframes the local schools have gotten worse by just about every measure. So the technique of paying 20% of the teachers $100k+ isn't working.

georgieporgie 16y ago

I would like to see a breakdown of financial distribution between skills-building classes versus special education. I imagine that metal shops are closing due to legal liability while special ed/needs spending is up due to legal obligation.

jbooth 16y ago
++, when I was in local politics we had a single student who cost the district 100k a year, several more at 20-50k, and the average spending per student was around 8k. Federal and state legislators can pass an unfunded mandate ("I will not stand by while we ignore these kids"), do a photo op, then cut the funding going to local districts and take credit for balancing the state budget. I'm not advocating eugenics or anything, just pointing out that after all the rhetoric and grandstanding, it's the school districts that wind up eating it.

Kadin 16y ago

When the average person who comes out of it can get themselves a living-wage job without loading up on debt for "higher education" in order to learn a marketable skill? High schools used to concentrate on teaching young adults what they needed to know in order to survive independently. At some point they stopped doing that, perhaps because they're still trying to teach them to read. But that seems like a problem.

jerfelix 16y ago
So how is this change in strategy a "funding" problem?
- nitrogen 16y ago
  Funding is being allocated to the wrong areas. Therefore it is a funding problem.