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Police actively try to resist this. I saw something really interesting when getting pulled over by the police a while back (on a boat). When they saw us record

Police actively try to resist this. I saw something really interesting when getting pulled over by the police a while back (on a boat). When they saw us recording them while they were writing a ticket, they shined a bright flashlight at our camera so that it would ruin the exposure and not capture anything useful. They were very deliberate about this and it was quite effective. Something does seem wrong about police in public not wanting to be recorded while doing their (taxpayer funded) job and holding extra power over the citizen (a police's word in court generally comes with a special authority).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
vlunkr 6y ago
I agree with the thought process here, but the reality is that almost no one wants to be recorded in public, especially knowing that it can easily be posted and shared online, where they will likely look like the bad guy.
- chokeartist 6y ago
  What does that matter? We are talking about cops -- aka taxpayer-paid dudes with guns. If anything these are the folks you should want some cameras on when bullets start flying.
- viztor 6y ago
  the right to record isn't necessarily the right to publish.
- dgs_sgd 6y ago
  As the parent comment says, police are tax payer funded and hold extra power over citizens. I think that trumps them being worried about "looking like the bad guy".
  - anonunivgrad 6y ago
    Say that you subdued a drug addict, who resisted arrest and was having a panic attack, according to the department prescribed method for that exact circumstance while waiting for an ambulance, and then say that the person died maybe because of a drug overdose, maybe because you used the subdual method incorrectly, and then say that the video was released, say that video incited national riots labeling your actions as murderous, and say that anyone who defended you had their entire life destroyed by cancel culture, and then say that a politically motivated state AG charged you with murder under a theory that is discredited in almost every other jurisdiction in the country (felony murder without a merger doctrine). That is an extreme example, but it could happen. To avoid that kind of thing, a rational, honest police officer, who has no other marketable skills at age 37 and doesn't want to be tried in the court of public opinion circa 2020, might resist being filmed.
    - autarch 6y ago
      You might have a valid point in here, but the extra thick layer of sarcasm really doesn't help make it.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - tshaddox 6y ago
      You’ve explained why police officers don’t want accountability. But of course, no one is confused why police officers don’t want accountability.
      - anonunivgrad 6y ago
        Many are confused. Many think that all police officers want to avoid accountability to conceal misbehavior. That is certainly true for some. But many police officers just want to avoid being unfairly judged in the court of public opinion, where they can't get a fair hearing because defending them is considered a crime against humanity.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Cashiers that make $10 an hour are under more surveillance and public exposure than cops are. Police are often the highest paid employees on a government's payroll, often making more than software engineers do, and they get to retire with a full pension after only 20 years of working. Given that they're the strong arm of the state, and that they're paid handsomely to be it, they can at least handle the same amount of accountability that cashiers do, if not more.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    How do you prove that cashiers are recorded more than police? I also don’t think there is any indication that police are generally the highest paid government employees.
    - heimatau 6y ago
      > How do you prove that cashiers are recorded more than police? You've never worked as a cashier. If one is behind the till, they have a direct camera on them for their entire shift.
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        Usually several cameras, all pointed at the cashier and their hands from different angles, with even more cameras littered throughout their workplace.
      - austincheney 6y ago
        I have. It depends where you work. I am curious what the point of that is because cameras don’t determine whether cash is improperly removed from the register.
        analog31 6y ago
        As I understand it, there's a lot more to it than stealing from the till. I used to work for a company that was peripheral to the security industry, so I got a lot of their literature. One was a pamphlet showing more than a dozen fiddles that are possible at the cash register. I've also read that most shoplifting is an inside job, at least involving an inside helper. There's stuff like having a bar code on the palm of your hand, so you scan a cheap item while passing an expensive item through the scanner.
- happytoexplain 6y ago
  Yes, of course, but the police are not just anybody.
- wpietri 6y ago
  Then maybe people who don't like that shouldn't take jobs working for the public in public while enforcing public laws to uphold public standards of public safety and public order. Just a thought.
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    This is quite well put
- vlunkr 6y ago
  I can't edit now, but I'm addressing the point that it "seems wrong" for cops to not want to be recorded. It seems completely natural. I'm not saying they shouldn't be filmed or should attempt to stop it, just that it's not surprising that they might not like it.
- SrslyJosh 6y ago
  Not being a cop is free. =)
jedimastert 6y ago
> Something does seem wrong about police in public not wanting to be recorded while doing their (taxpayer funded) job For devil's advocate, there's a lot of negative feelings toward workplace surveillance, and for good reason. Having everything you're doing recorded isn't a very good feeling. It really takes away freedoms of judgement and latitude. Whether or not you think police should have any freedom of latitude is a debate in and of itself, I suppose. I come from a city that has an apparently unusually strong track record with traditionally disadvantaged peoples (POC, homeless, immigrants, etc.) so I have very different gut reactions about police than most of the internet.
- Merman_Mike 6y ago
  Last I checked, they're not drafting police officers in the US. If it hurts your feelings to be recorded while performing your public service job: find a new job.
  - quintushoratius 6y ago
    "Find a new job" is equivalent to "move to a different country". It's a bullshit response that implies that a certain group should be allowed to do something controversial. If you're going to exercise exceptional infringement on someone then you should be able to offer a solid rationale.
    - thatguy0900 6y ago
      Is being able to record the police controversial?
    - athms 6y ago
      >Find a new job" is equivalent to "move to a different country". No it isn't. Switching from cop to ditch digger doesn't require an immigration visa, learning a new language and culture, figuring out the metric system, uprooting your family and maybe supporting your spouse because they won't be able to acquire a job in the new country. Shall I go on?
    - 6y ago
kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
I had a cop in an unmarked car (with no lights or siren) try to shove me out of my lane while following a speeder he was going to ticket when their lane ended. I get pulled over instead for holding my ground and after explaining how he broke the law in so many ways he made a whole show of checking out the vehicle while monitoring for cameras.
- aeternum 6y ago
  I'm pretty concerned about how this ends. It's clear there's a major problem in police departments within the US and it is getting worse instead of better for a few reasons: 1) There a significant camaraderie that is very much part of the job. Unlike most jobs, police depend on their coworkers to keep them alive. From a game theory POV, the price of defection (not corroborating the a partner's story, or testifying against another officer) is extremely high. 2) Confidence in police is at a record low, the majority of American adults no longer trust police. This will yield an increased 'us vs. them' mentality and even more divisiveness. Officers that were more moderate/compassionate will be squeezed from both sides: general public assuming they are corrupt and fellow officers questioning their 'loyalty'. This pressure will cause some number of the moderate/compassionate officers to leave. 3) Calls to cut funding for police departments as well as the public perception changes economic incentives. From an economic POV, rational individuals are less likely to choose to be police officers. This means that the average 'rationality' of our nation's police is likely to decrease.
  - m463 6y ago
    I wonder if bad laws might be part of the problem. If the war on drugs, civil forfeiture or even a low speed limit makes everyone resent the police, is that a root cause? I wonder if there could be a way that the police are viewed like firemen or postal workers. Did the UK policemen that didn't carry guns have better acceptance in that respect?
    - throwaway2048 6y ago
      Another significant factor is police departments in the USA are almost always hyperlocal, meaning very corrupt practices can fester for a long time, all that has to happen is the sherif/police chief keeps getting re-elected.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

vlunkr 6y ago

I agree with the thought process here, but the reality is that almost no one wants to be recorded in public, especially knowing that it can easily be posted and shared online, where they will likely look like the bad guy.

chokeartist 6y ago
What does that matter? We are talking about cops -- aka taxpayer-paid dudes with guns. If anything these are the folks you should want some cameras on when bullets start flying.
viztor 6y ago
the right to record isn't necessarily the right to publish.
dgs_sgd 6y ago
As the parent comment says, police are tax payer funded and hold extra power over citizens. I think that trumps them being worried about "looking like the bad guy".
- anonunivgrad 6y ago
  Say that you subdued a drug addict, who resisted arrest and was having a panic attack, according to the department prescribed method for that exact circumstance while waiting for an ambulance, and then say that the person died maybe because of a drug overdose, maybe because you used the subdual method incorrectly, and then say that the video was released, say that video incited national riots labeling your actions as murderous, and say that anyone who defended you had their entire life destroyed by cancel culture, and then say that a politically motivated state AG charged you with murder under a theory that is discredited in almost every other jurisdiction in the country (felony murder without a merger doctrine). That is an extreme example, but it could happen. To avoid that kind of thing, a rational, honest police officer, who has no other marketable skills at age 37 and doesn't want to be tried in the court of public opinion circa 2020, might resist being filmed.
  - autarch 6y ago
    You might have a valid point in here, but the extra thick layer of sarcasm really doesn't help make it.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    You’ve explained why police officers don’t want accountability. But of course, no one is confused why police officers don’t want accountability.
    - anonunivgrad 6y ago
      Many are confused. Many think that all police officers want to avoid accountability to conceal misbehavior. That is certainly true for some. But many police officers just want to avoid being unfairly judged in the court of public opinion, where they can't get a fair hearing because defending them is considered a crime against humanity.
heavyset_go 6y ago
Cashiers that make $10 an hour are under more surveillance and public exposure than cops are. Police are often the highest paid employees on a government's payroll, often making more than software engineers do, and they get to retire with a full pension after only 20 years of working. Given that they're the strong arm of the state, and that they're paid handsomely to be it, they can at least handle the same amount of accountability that cashiers do, if not more.
- austincheney 6y ago
  How do you prove that cashiers are recorded more than police? I also don’t think there is any indication that police are generally the highest paid government employees.
  - heimatau 6y ago
    > How do you prove that cashiers are recorded more than police? You've never worked as a cashier. If one is behind the till, they have a direct camera on them for their entire shift.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      Usually several cameras, all pointed at the cashier and their hands from different angles, with even more cameras littered throughout their workplace.
    - austincheney 6y ago
      I have. It depends where you work. I am curious what the point of that is because cameras don’t determine whether cash is improperly removed from the register.
      - analog31 6y ago
        As I understand it, there's a lot more to it than stealing from the till. I used to work for a company that was peripheral to the security industry, so I got a lot of their literature. One was a pamphlet showing more than a dozen fiddles that are possible at the cash register. I've also read that most shoplifting is an inside job, at least involving an inside helper. There's stuff like having a bar code on the palm of your hand, so you scan a cheap item while passing an expensive item through the scanner.
happytoexplain 6y ago
Yes, of course, but the police are not just anybody.
wpietri 6y ago
Then maybe people who don't like that shouldn't take jobs working for the public in public while enforcing public laws to uphold public standards of public safety and public order. Just a thought.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  This is quite well put
vlunkr 6y ago
I can't edit now, but I'm addressing the point that it "seems wrong" for cops to not want to be recorded. It seems completely natural. I'm not saying they shouldn't be filmed or should attempt to stop it, just that it's not surprising that they might not like it.
SrslyJosh 6y ago
Not being a cop is free. =)

jedimastert 6y ago

> Something does seem wrong about police in public not wanting to be recorded while doing their (taxpayer funded) job For devil's advocate, there's a lot of negative feelings toward workplace surveillance, and for good reason. Having everything you're doing recorded isn't a very good feeling. It really takes away freedoms of judgement and latitude. Whether or not you think police should have any freedom of latitude is a debate in and of itself, I suppose. I come from a city that has an apparently unusually strong track record with traditionally disadvantaged peoples (POC, homeless, immigrants, etc.) so I have very different gut reactions about police than most of the internet.

Merman_Mike 6y ago
Last I checked, they're not drafting police officers in the US. If it hurts your feelings to be recorded while performing your public service job: find a new job.
- quintushoratius 6y ago
  "Find a new job" is equivalent to "move to a different country". It's a bullshit response that implies that a certain group should be allowed to do something controversial. If you're going to exercise exceptional infringement on someone then you should be able to offer a solid rationale.
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    Is being able to record the police controversial?
  - athms 6y ago
    >Find a new job" is equivalent to "move to a different country". No it isn't. Switching from cop to ditch digger doesn't require an immigration visa, learning a new language and culture, figuring out the metric system, uprooting your family and maybe supporting your spouse because they won't be able to acquire a job in the new country. Shall I go on?
  - 6y ago

kevin_thibedeau 6y ago

I had a cop in an unmarked car (with no lights or siren) try to shove me out of my lane while following a speeder he was going to ticket when their lane ended. I get pulled over instead for holding my ground and after explaining how he broke the law in so many ways he made a whole show of checking out the vehicle while monitoring for cameras.

aeternum 6y ago
I'm pretty concerned about how this ends. It's clear there's a major problem in police departments within the US and it is getting worse instead of better for a few reasons: 1) There a significant camaraderie that is very much part of the job. Unlike most jobs, police depend on their coworkers to keep them alive. From a game theory POV, the price of defection (not corroborating the a partner's story, or testifying against another officer) is extremely high. 2) Confidence in police is at a record low, the majority of American adults no longer trust police. This will yield an increased 'us vs. them' mentality and even more divisiveness. Officers that were more moderate/compassionate will be squeezed from both sides: general public assuming they are corrupt and fellow officers questioning their 'loyalty'. This pressure will cause some number of the moderate/compassionate officers to leave. 3) Calls to cut funding for police departments as well as the public perception changes economic incentives. From an economic POV, rational individuals are less likely to choose to be police officers. This means that the average 'rationality' of our nation's police is likely to decrease.
- m463 6y ago
  I wonder if bad laws might be part of the problem. If the war on drugs, civil forfeiture or even a low speed limit makes everyone resent the police, is that a root cause? I wonder if there could be a way that the police are viewed like firemen or postal workers. Did the UK policemen that didn't carry guns have better acceptance in that respect?
  - throwaway2048 6y ago
    Another significant factor is police departments in the USA are almost always hyperlocal, meaning very corrupt practices can fester for a long time, all that has to happen is the sherif/police chief keeps getting re-elected.