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Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend t

Tangentially related, but I think that there’s a real problem in western society around the teen years. Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. This leads to a reliable pattern of teens “hating” their parents, a phenomenon that is non existent in the rest of the world especially Asia. This also leads to a huge disparity in what percentage of kids end up becoming successful adults even when all basic needs are met.

nitrogen 6y ago
Corporal punishment doesn't exactly prevent teens hating their parents, either. The most violent instance I've seen (as opposed to experienced) was within a culture that has very high respect for elders. A 20-something guy's dad beat him repeatedly with a log (3" diameter with the rough bark on doesn't really count as a stick) because the 20-something said something mean to his (the 20-something's) wife. The 20-something needed some kind of reprimand, but I wouldn't accept that kind of violence in trade for higher "respect" for elders.
skim_milk 6y ago
>Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller wrote "The former practice of physically maiming, exploiting, and abusing children seems to have been gradually replaced in modern times by a form of mental cruelty that is masked by the honorific term child-rearing". Of course the book pretty clearly covers the dangers of corporal punishment or any kind of attack on a child's self-worth. The point is to push through this awkward abusive phase and bring our species out the other side more self-aware by not continuing the cycle of abuse/neglect.
- trianglem 6y ago
  How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.
  - closeparen 6y ago
    What makes you say you can quickly move on? Isn’t it the whole point to create a powerful memory that instills lasting fear and influences all future decisions?
    - trianglem 6y ago
      My memory of corporal punishment — three times in my life — was a reminder of the severity of how wrong something I did was and looking back at it was completely justified. It’s not fear as much as shock to remember the moment. The pain was insignificant and so there was no fear, at least for me.
      - renjimen 6y ago
        If a child is old enough to understand (usually younger than you think, judging from my friends' children), they're old enough to deserve a conversation about why what they did was not a good thing. Will they act out again? Probably, but that only requires more energy and intelligence from the parent to educate their child. Corporal punishment is lazy, short-sighted parenting that is a "chronic, developmental stressor associated with depression, aggression and addictive behaviors" [1]. Honestly, I'm shocked this is being supported on Hackernews, of all places. Maybe you're right that Western parents are caught between an era of corporal punishment and not knowing how to parent alternatively. Does that mean reverting to violence against children? Absolutely not. Surely it means understanding how to communicate with your children better. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2896871/?_escaped_fragment_=po https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2896871/?_escap...
        6y ago
deleted 6y ago
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bradlys 6y ago
Are we talking about at institutions or at home? Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states for parents. Btw, corporal punishment isn’t a great alternative to dissing your kids. Both are terrible and should be avoided. Just because some people beat the shit out of kids in Asia doesn’t mean Asia got it right.
- trianglem 6y ago
  There’s a difference between beating the shit out of your kids and a slap across the face. That nuance gets thrown out with the bath water though.

nitrogen 6y ago

Corporal punishment doesn't exactly prevent teens hating their parents, either. The most violent instance I've seen (as opposed to experienced) was within a culture that has very high respect for elders. A 20-something guy's dad beat him repeatedly with a log (3" diameter with the rough bark on doesn't really count as a stick) because the 20-something said something mean to his (the 20-something's) wife. The 20-something needed some kind of reprimand, but I wouldn't accept that kind of violence in trade for higher "respect" for elders.

skim_milk 6y ago

>Since corporal punishment is not allowed, parents tend to discipline their kids by attacking their self worth. There's no doubt we're in this awkward generation where our parents were probably treated with corporal punishment, but still want to inflict onto their kids this which they were exposed to as a kid despite this no longer looking good/being legal. Even the anti-child-abuse book "For Your Own Good" by Alice Miller wrote "The former practice of physically maiming, exploiting, and abusing children seems to have been gradually replaced in modern times by a form of mental cruelty that is masked by the honorific term child-rearing". Of course the book pretty clearly covers the dangers of corporal punishment or any kind of attack on a child's self-worth. The point is to push through this awkward abusive phase and bring our species out the other side more self-aware by not continuing the cycle of abuse/neglect.

trianglem 6y ago
How do you push through a phase with no corrective mechanism allowed on the other side? How do you propose you correct your kids? Corporal punishment is quick and decisive and both parties can move on quickly as opposed to the lifelong mental baggage that weighs down a lot of people in the western world.
- closeparen 6y ago
  What makes you say you can quickly move on? Isn’t it the whole point to create a powerful memory that instills lasting fear and influences all future decisions?
  - trianglem 6y ago
    My memory of corporal punishment — three times in my life — was a reminder of the severity of how wrong something I did was and looking back at it was completely justified. It’s not fear as much as shock to remember the moment. The pain was insignificant and so there was no fear, at least for me.
    - renjimen 6y ago
      If a child is old enough to understand (usually younger than you think, judging from my friends' children), they're old enough to deserve a conversation about why what they did was not a good thing. Will they act out again? Probably, but that only requires more energy and intelligence from the parent to educate their child. Corporal punishment is lazy, short-sighted parenting that is a "chronic, developmental stressor associated with depression, aggression and addictive behaviors" [1]. Honestly, I'm shocked this is being supported on Hackernews, of all places. Maybe you're right that Western parents are caught between an era of corporal punishment and not knowing how to parent alternatively. Does that mean reverting to violence against children? Absolutely not. Surely it means understanding how to communicate with your children better. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2896871/?_escaped_fragment_=po https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2896871/?_escap...
      - 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

bradlys 6y ago

Are we talking about at institutions or at home? Corporal punishment is legal in all 50 states for parents. Btw, corporal punishment isn’t a great alternative to dissing your kids. Both are terrible and should be avoided. Just because some people beat the shit out of kids in Asia doesn’t mean Asia got it right.

trianglem 6y ago
There’s a difference between beating the shit out of your kids and a slap across the face. That nuance gets thrown out with the bath water though.